#1782867 - 07/17/07 02:47 AM
Questions about EQ and such
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thanksforhelpethan
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Registered: 06/07/06
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Hey guys =D. After a very long time of writing music and learning piano I am finally ready to start recording vocals for my stuff. I wanted to see what advice or thoughts yall have for vocal recordings. Mainly with which type of plug ins I should or perhaps need to use to get the right sound with vocals. I use a R0de NTK condensor mic and mix with Pro tools LE.
Ideally if I could get advice for different types of singing as well as just speaking and also rapping that would be great because I will be recording all 3 plus recording sound effects of different sorts as well. So the knowledge of knowing when/ what EQ to use, or compressors to use, or whatever other plug-ins/ effects I may need or want would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance everyone.
Peace
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#1784832 - 07/21/07 12:07 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: thanksforhelpethan]
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audiofreek
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I like the Bomb Factory plug-ins for PT LE,The Fairchild compressor,sounds pretty good to my ears.It hasn't got alot of parameters,just set the compression at 0,raise the input until your channel clips,then raise the compression until you see the needle start to show some gain reduction.
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#1784877 - 07/21/07 07:42 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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Griffinator
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just set the compression at 0,raise the input until your channel clips....
So you want to raise the noise floor, then add a compressor to exaggerate it?
Why?
_________________________
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#1784886 - 07/21/07 08:32 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: Griffinator]
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miroslav
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For all your vocal recordings...first get the vocal sound you want - at the mic....and you will find that there may be little need to string a bunch of plugins on it afterwards. 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1784904 - 07/21/07 09:56 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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Registered: 06/20/07
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+1 on Miro's advise, audiofreek get's an F on gainstaging.
For starters, I highly recommend replacing the stock NTK tube with an EH Gold 6922. It will do wonders for the pressense peak, taming it nicely into submission, and add a touch of mid bass warmth, making the mic sound really, really nice for vocals.
Second is position. Sing over, rather than into the mic, aiming anywhere between the chin and breastbone. This accomplishes 2 things. 1, it captures more of the full range tone of your voice, and not just what comes out of your mouth. (think about a sax, the tone isn't what's out of the bell, it's also what comes from the valves.) 2, it puts the singer in a proper singing posture. Shoulders down, head straight, unlike those M-TV videos where the singer head is tilted to the sky, pressing the esaphogus against the airway, restricting the vocal cords and airflow, robbing the singer of power, sustain and range.
Of course all this needs the right acoustic environment. This doesn't mean a dead as a coffin isoe booth either. A good neutral room, with a baffle behind the singer works great.
What are you using for PT hardware/mic pre? Nothing in the PTle family is really all that great, so if you have the coin, you might consider an outboard mic pre. For relatively short moneY (under$500) the FMR RNP is an outstanding deal for 2 channels of exceptionally good mic pre.
A good singer doesn't need compression, or very little. I highly recommend you stay away from it when tracking unless the singer has absolute shit dynamics and mic technique.
Proper levels into your AD is also critical. You do NOT want to be trying to hit anywhere near 0dbfs. Different converters have different 0dbu references, so check Digi specs for your specific hardware (it'll be somewhere around -14dbfs) and use that as your nominal record level. Don't worry about peaks, you'll have plenty of headroom for them unless your dynamics are poor, (inwhich case it's time to practice more or take separate tracks of soft and loud sections) the nominal level is what to watch.
When mixing, first clean up the track, remove unwanted mouth noises, excessive breathing (but don't take all the beath sounds out, it'll sound unnatural) and use volume automation to balance the track. Then, try a touch of compression at a low ratio 2:1 or even 1.5:1, with a medium to slow attack, and the fastest release time you can. Lower the threshold until the peaks are giving you 2-3db of gain reduction.
Typically I put a HP on vocals between 110-400hz, depending on the vocalist. 400Hz is radical, but for an alto or soprano, not out of the question. Also, I typcially LP the vocal around 10-12Khz also. From there, it's strictly to taste, but if you've got a good track, it will need little to make it shine. If you're finding yourself doing radical eqing (unless it's for a specific fx sound) go back and examine your tracking process.
Best of luck.
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#1785104 - 07/21/07 10:04 PM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiorulez]
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audiofreek
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He asked what plugs we thought were good,I Like Bomb Factory stuff,but I should have said set the gain,not raise the gain,but either way if you compress,you'll be making up the gain after wards,and still raising the noise floor.
If you choose to compress for a particular sound,rather than ride the gain,then for RTAS plugs,the BF stuffs a good value for the dollar.
As I record,I get to know a song,vocalist,and the levels they are putting out in particular passages,I will ride the fader on the way into the recorder.That's a little hard to do when you're tracking yourself,so using a hardware compressor/limiter can be a usefull way to stop overs,and maximize resolution,or rather than setting the gain too low,and having a poor signal level. You guys have all given great,well thought out advise on vocal technique,and getting the sound right "at the source".
My responce was not nearly as well thought out or helpfull as yours,but it did answer one of his questions.
Remember the one rule of recording,"there are no rules",but if there were rules,proper gain staging would be the first,as Audiorulez has pointed out.
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#1785446 - 07/22/07 08:54 PM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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audiorulez
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Keeping proper gain staging by setting proper preamp levels as well as makeup gain does not increase the noise floor, whereas with your method, which is essentially setting your pre gain to adjust your compression, does. Basic audio 101.
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#1785833 - 07/23/07 07:04 PM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiorulez]
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audiofreek
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Yeah,
I was talking about the gain on the plugin.Which is post any noise inducing amplifiers.It's simple,if you have 3dB of gain reduction,you increase the noise floor by 3dB,regadless of how you trigger the compressor to reduce the gain on the plug-in,either by input gain,or threshold control.If you choose,you could take your signal as it is,and just lower the threshold until the compressor reduces the gain,and then use your channel fader to bring it back up again.Either way,the noise floor is the same,unless you used the plug-in during tracking,but that would just be silly.
Edited by audiofreek (07/23/07 08:08 PM)
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#1785984 - 07/24/07 06:06 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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audiorulez
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So you're suggesting using a plugin compressor when tracking?
You do realize that the recorded audio is unaffected by plugins, and that the plugin does absolutely nothing to prevent overs into the converters, since it is post converter, right?
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#1787666 - 07/27/07 08:18 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiorulez]
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audiofreek
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Nope,I wasn't suggesting that at all.Yes I do realize that plug-in compressors and limiters don't do anything to prevent overs when recording.I had mentioned earlier,the use of a hardware comp/limiter,in the recording chain though.
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#1787771 - 07/27/07 12:16 PM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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audiorulez
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-3db=3db=0db.
The noise floor is established, and whether it's gain from the compressor out or the fader, the signal and noise go up equally.
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#1788321 - 07/28/07 09:27 PM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiorulez]
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audiofreek
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Precisely.
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#1788396 - 07/29/07 07:59 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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audiorulez
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Then why are you suggesting different?
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#1789229 - 07/31/07 06:50 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiorulez]
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audiofreek
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I'm not.
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#1789284 - 07/31/07 08:46 AM
Re: Questions about EQ and such
[Re: audiofreek]
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audiorulez
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Registered: 06/20/07
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oh contrare:
Yeah,
I was talking about the gain on the plugin.Which is post any noise inducing amplifiers.It's simple,if you have 3dB of gain reduction,you increase the noise floor by 3dB,regadless of how you trigger the compressor to reduce the gain on the plug-in,either by input gain,or threshold control.If you choose,you could take your signal as it is,and just lower the threshold until the compressor reduces the gain,and then use your channel fader to bring it back up again.Either way,the noise floor is the same,unless you used the plug-in during tracking,but that would just be silly.
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