#1781371 - 07/13/07 08:29 PM
Panning Question
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KikkyMonk
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Registered: 04/03/01
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Loc: Vista,CA,UNITED STATES
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We have 2 guitars in our band and are coming to the mix down stage and the idea has come up to pan one guitar hard left (SM57) and hard right (room mic) and the other guitar both dead center (again an SM57 and a room mic). The dead center is a Gibson / Marshall and the hard left/right is a telecaster with a fender amp.
Does this sound like a good idea? I know it's not what usually is done. Is it really just putting both guitars in the center (albeit with some natural room reverb in the right channel)
Thanks,
Dave
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#1781377 - 07/13/07 08:49 PM
Re: Panning Question
[Re: KikkyMonk]
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miroslav
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I know it's not what usually is done. Is it really just putting both guitars in the center (albeit with some natural room reverb in the right channel)
First off...there really is no "this is how it's usually done"... 
Much depends on what else you have going on in the mix...how things were recorded...the song and it's arrangement...etc...etc...
...so really, ANYTHING can go...if it sounds good.
If anything (without me knowing how any of it sounds)...you might try, as a starting point, panning each of the close-miked tracks hard (one left, one right)...then pan their room mikes hard, to the opposite sides.
Then slowly start bringing each of the close-miked tracks towards the center, and listen for where they sound good relative to all the other tracks...
…and leave the room tracks hard on the opposite sides.
That will give you a very big, wide guitar sound...IF that’s what you want and what works in the mix.
Or you can pan one guitar about 9-10 o'clock (both of its mics)....and the other guitar around 2-3 o'clock (both of its mics)...
…that way the room sound won't make things too big and wide but you will still hear it at the same spot as the close mic…for each guitar.
Or...if you need to tighten up the guitars...really turn down the guitar room mics or kill them completely and leave the panned guitars totally dry for a more layered texture to your mix…instead of everything having a room sound.
Heck...there are probably 20 ways to try and mix the guitars...but there will only be 1-2 that really sound best...you just have to experiment until you find them. 
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1781577 - 07/14/07 10:29 AM
Re: Panning Question
[Re: miroslav]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I'm usually trying to use stereo to achive a natural room sound, with each instrument located in its space. Close your eyes, you 'see' the band.
What you suggest will probably made one guitar sound 10 feet wide in my typical scenario. But as has been said, there is no rule regarding thes. The only thing that you have to consider is mono compatability... if that does not mater to you then you can pan anything anywhere.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1781591 - 07/14/07 11:22 AM
Re: Panning Question
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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audiorulez
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Registered: 06/20/07
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While indeed there are no "rules" for this, I'd pan the room mics center, and pan the close mics very slightly to their located positions, avoiding panning anything hard.
Try this, close your eyes and have someone pan them until you feel they are in the right place.
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#1781702 - 07/14/07 03:02 PM
Re: Panning Question
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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Good points being made...
Yeah...once the rough-mix is setup...I often close my eyes and just listen in order to get that final position and EQ fine-tune.
Again, without knowing how the OP's tracks and other elements sound...it is very difficult to give suggestions on how best to pan/mix them.
However...I've had a lot of good results with hard left/right panning of two guitars.
The one thing I do quite often when panning two/double tracks of the same instruments...is I avoid ANY type of room ambience. I keep them 100% dry.
I think it is a wet/room sound applied to all tracks and spread wide that can make things huge and cluttered (in certain cases).
By keeping the two/doubled tracks dry...they provide a nice wide texture WITHOUT sounding bigger than everything else.
I will often record either the same part twice, but played on different guitars...or take one part, double it, and then delay it according to the BMP of the song (either 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, 1/8...etc of the beat).
I have a nice little software tool that quickly computes all the correct millisecond delays for me. I will most always keep those hard left/right (sometimes down to 75% left/right) tracks completely dry.
The slight delay I create...or the natural difference you get when doubling a part on different instruments...creates a nice space without suffocating the other tracks/elements.
I do the doubled/delayed tracks a lot with my Hammond organ parts...or sometimes, for a really textured/layered feel...I'll play specific notes of a chord on one track and then for the double, I'll play the other/different notes of those chords. The two tracks together make up the full chords...but they are each panned to opposite sides.
Then for other elements...like vocals, leads, piano...etc...I will use nice reverbs at varying strengths/lengths.
The combination of those wet instruments...along with the dry doubled and/or delayed instruments panned from hard-----all the way to center, at varying increments...fills out the entire stereo image without things stepping all over each other.
And it’s not just about the wet/dry or the panning…it’s also the levels of those tracks/elements.
I always like to try and get some front/back and up/down (difficult) imaging rather than just the left/right stage.
Anyway...there are just SO MANY possibilities...but I think it always comes down to just a few that really work well for a given song...you just have to find them.
Every time I push up the faders on a song…I’m always seeing new possibilities….and that’s what makes mixing so much fun.
Edited by miroslav (07/14/07 03:19 PM)
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1797307 - 08/17/07 08:07 PM
Re: Panning Question
[Re: miroslav]
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paris
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Registered: 08/06/07
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Loc: Kamloops B.C.
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Dave,
there is some great advise here , basically boils down to the ambience you wish to create with the tracks and type of feel you want to portray , there is no right way to do stuff and the mix is always as much fun as the recording if not more.
picture Ygwe Malmsteen does not record the same way Dave Gilmour does
yet both are equally valid acording to taste.Gilmour can do 10 times as much with 3 notes as Ygwe can with 200,but its all taste.listen to something in the same vein as you are recording paying attention to the stereo field , then analyse what feel you wantto create.
but most of all have fun!
paris
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