#1771427 - 06/25/07 01:05 PM
New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
|
jollylittlehun
Member
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 3
|
Offline
|
|
Hi im looking into recording my band, Im looking for a fairly cheap solution around about £300 to £400 ($600 to $800). This price is for all the hardware (mixer, audio interface etc) not including a laptop or the mics. I have a legitimate copy of Cubase so i will be using that as my DAW. My Laptop is a 1.6ghz core2duo 1gig RAM and uses USB 2.0.
I would like to record live drums around about 6 to 8 mics and have a rhythm guitar coming through the drummers headphones. Then record 2 guitars and bass and finally recording the vocals.
Thanks for all your suggestions in advance
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1771447 - 06/25/07 01:28 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: jollylittlehun]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
Check out the Mackie Onyx, M-Audio and Presonus stuff.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1771480 - 06/25/07 02:20 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: jollylittlehun]
|
jollylittlehun
Member
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 3
|
|
Offline
|
|
Ok i will do thanks. Can you tell me what the basic setup is? How all the hardware gets connected? Is it mics -> mixer -> audio interface -> PC?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1771489 - 06/25/07 02:47 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: jollylittlehun]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
Mic-AD
Mix in the computer.
Check the websites of the manufacturers listed, they give some helpful info.
If you're planning on doing somthing other than live performace recordings, which is sounds like you are, it's far more involved. You'll need a properly acoustically tuned control room, decent monitors, as hp monitoring for the artists, a good sounding room to record in, with possibly an iso room for vocals or other instruments to eliminate or at least lessen bleed. It's far more complicated than just a few mics and a DAW program, and even for a project studio, not cheap!!!!!
What is your current budget, and what do you currently own?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1771514 - 06/25/07 03:27 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
jollylittlehun
Member
Registered: 06/25/07
Posts: 3
|
|
Offline
|
|
Ok well ive recently inherited a recording studio, the room sounds pretty good. No iso room for vocals, but there is a control room or atleast i can make it a control room. There is a PA system there with what i think is an 8 track possibly a 12, ill need to check that tomorrow. I have all the mics ill need mostly sm57's some others that im not sure about. My budget is around £300 to possibly £500.
We did some recording in a studio and we did it live. Played the whole song on the instruments and then recorded the vocals after. I quite liked that way of recording. But im not sure how i would be able to set something up like taht.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1773175 - 06/28/07 08:27 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: jollylittlehun]
|
NUTT
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 2339
Loc: Houston
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'm not an expert here, quite the opposite actually, but have started research on a USB interface.
I'm looking at the Lexicon Lambda, about $150 USD. You can record 2 seperate tracks at the same time with this interface, it comes with Cubase LE.
I picked up an inexpensive mixer for running in my rehearsal space, but will probably record the tracks direct through the USB interface.
FYI, the USB interfaces I've looked at call for a 7200 RPM hard drive. These are fairly uncommon in laptops. I'm not sure if you can track very well with a standard 5400 RPM drive, but others may chime in with some hand on knowledge.
I'm going to upgrade mine because the hard drive needs an upgrade anyway.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1773208 - 06/28/07 09:26 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: NUTT]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
YOu should never record to your system drive, always to a second physical drive, for a laptop that means Firewire, USB2.0 simply doesn't have the sustained throughput. Make sure it's 7200rpm, get the biggest cache you can, and the FW interface utilizes the Oxford 911 or 922 chipset.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1773975 - 06/29/07 11:41 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
NUTT
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 2339
Loc: Houston
|
|
Offline
|
|
YOu should never record to your system drive, always to a second physical drive
Really? What is the issue with recording to the main drive?
As stated, I'm starting my own personal foray into home recording and was considering using a laptop that I have to make it more portable for gigs and such.
If this is a bad move, I do have a spare desktop system that I can use, and slapping a second hard drive in it is on the to do list anyway.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1773984 - 06/29/07 11:53 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: NUTT]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
OK not always, if all you're doing is a couple tracks, then you can, assuming you've got a decent computer, get away with it with minimal issues. However you still need a backup drive either way, as with all digital data, backup is a must. Use a second physical drive for your audio, and you can use unused space on your system drive (being careful not to fill either drive past 80% capacity) for backup. However should you need that backup, move the session to your audio drive before using it. You should consider partitioning your system drive, having one partition for your OS/apps(with at least 20-30% of the partition unused) and another for backup of your audio.
When you record to your system drive, and subsequently mix from it, you're asking your system drive to:
1. Read and execute OS commands
2. Read and execute DAW and 3rd party plugin commands
3. read and edit audio files
That's a lot for one drive to do, and will reduce your track and plug in count dramatically. the drive is constantly scanning the surface to find and execute on all these bits of info. By putting the audio files on a separate drive (not partition, as that would still be the same drive) you radically lessen the load on the system drive, and increase speed and efficiency. This is standard practice when doing digital audio or video.
In an ideal world, a second backup on a removable media, such as a FW or USB2.0 drive is also done, and kept offsite as a second redundant backup. Nothing is backed up til it's backed up twice.
Drives are cheap, FW enclosures as well. You can make your own FW drives in a few minutes for about 1/2 that of preassembled ones.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1773986 - 06/29/07 11:57 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: NUTT]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
Online
|
|
YOu should never record to your system drive, always to a second physical drive Really? What is the issue with recording to the main drive? As stated, I'm starting my own personal foray into home recording and was considering using a laptop that I have to make it more portable for gigs and such. If this is a bad move, I do have a spare desktop system that I can use, and slapping a second hard drive in it is on the to do list anyway.
If you're planning on multi-channel recording ("for gigs", to me, presumes recording the whole band, not just you) then a laptop isn't going to cut it without an external drive.
I looked hard at laptops as a solution to my portability problem, but when all was said and done, I just built a desktop in a 4u rack mount server case, and slapped it into my regular gig rack. As soon as I get the dosh, I'll be picking up one of those rackmount LCD's with the keyboard and mouse tray built in, to really portabilize the package.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774041 - 06/29/07 01:11 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
All well and good, but a laptop is far less space hungry than a desktop, and is actually built to be portable. The time/money spend to make a desktop portable IMHO is far greater than picking up a laptop already designed for same. The OP's laptop is more than adequate for doing live recordings. He can get a FW card for about $25 to add FW ports to it.
Laptops can be had cheap these days, especially if you buy used from places like Craigslist (where you can meet in person with a local seller vs a crapshoot on ebay from a stranger) where a good PC laptop can be had for a few hundred bucks that'll do live recordings multitrack easily. Fare easier, more space concious (a premium in small venues) and designed to be portable. Since you won't be editing or mixing on location, an external mouse, keyboard and video monitors are a waste of money and space, these are all built into the laptop.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774074 - 06/29/07 01:45 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
Since you won't be editing or mixing on location, an external mouse, keyboard and video monitors are a waste of money and space, these are all built into the laptop.
So is inherent instability. So is limited battery life (try recording a 4 hour gig without plugging into the wall and let me know how that works out for you).
Rackmount cases can be had for peanuts - I bought mine for less than $60 two years ago. Figure in the fact that you always get less power for the same money with a laptop versus a desktop, and the inherent flexibility issues (2nd drive has to be external, which doubles its cost and reduces access speed) and I assure you, I can build, with brand new parts, a better mobile recording rig starting with desktop parts than you can with a laptop. I ran 16 channels simultaneous at 96K into mine for 4 hours straight at one session without a single underrun (0 state RAID - big time write speed boost). Can you do that with a laptop?
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774106 - 06/29/07 02:31 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
NUTT
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 2339
Loc: Houston
|
|
Offline
|
|
OK not always, if all you're doing is a couple tracks, then you can, assuming you've got a decent computer, get away with it with minimal issues. However you still need a backup drive either way, as with all digital data, backup is a must.
I'm thinking a little more basic than you are thinking. The interface I'm looking at is 2 tracks max (Lexicon Lambda). My laptop (pending upgraded drive) and the Lambda will work for recording and do mixing on a seperate PC.
The laptop is a 2.66 GHz P4 w/ 1 GB of RAM. I was planning on upgrading the hard drive anyway as the machine is 3 years old now.
I also have a dual 1.7 Xeon processor desktop machine with 3 GB RAM and a Terabyte of total storage capacity (on 2 seperate physical drives). This computer will serve as file backup and probably also handle mixing duties. I have a nice arrangement of displays available as well.
Although, a PCMCIA Firewire card and whipping together an external drive would probably solve the problem of recording & mixing when I'm away from home.
If you're planning on multi-channel recording ("for gigs", to me, presumes recording the whole band, not just you) then a laptop isn't going to cut it without an external drive.
I was more thinking a pair of stereo mics and the laptop placed somewhere in the room that had good balance would work best. 2 tracks, quick & dirty.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774131 - 06/29/07 03:16 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: NUTT]
|
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 12329
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
For 2-track recording....you should be fine with that laptop.....
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774197 - 06/29/07 05:03 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: miroslav]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
Indeed, if it's just stereo, then you should be fine.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774288 - 06/29/07 10:09 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
Since you won't be editing or mixing on location, an external mouse, keyboard and video monitors are a waste of money and space, these are all built into the laptop. So is inherent instability. So is limited battery life (try recording a 4 hour gig without plugging into the wall and let me know how that works out for you). Rackmount cases can be had for peanuts - I bought mine for less than $60 two years ago. Figure in the fact that you always get less power for the same money with a laptop versus a desktop, and the inherent flexibility issues (2nd drive has to be external, which doubles its cost and reduces access speed) and I assure you, I can build, with brand new parts, a better mobile recording rig starting with desktop parts than you can with a laptop. I ran 16 channels simultaneous at 96K into mine for 4 hours straight at one session without a single underrun (0 state RAID - big time write speed boost). Can you do that with a laptop?
If you don't have power to plug in your laptop, where is the sound and lighting going to get power.
You can easily record 24 tracks with the laptop the OP listed without any issues. The myth that laptops are less stable than desktops is just that, a myth. Done well in excess of 4 hours of this on a Mac Powerbook 867Mhz with absolutely no problems
You can build an external drive for the same peanuts you buy that rackmount case for, which, BTW, does NOTHING to make the desktop more durable, only rack mountable. It's still a desktop, not built for porting around like a laptop is.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1774735 - 07/01/07 08:02 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
You can build an external drive for the same peanuts you buy that rackmount case for, which, BTW, does NOTHING to make the desktop more durable, only rack mountable. It's still a desktop, not built for porting around like a laptop is.
Actually, every rack mount case I looked at, including the one I bought, had shock-proof cages for the hard drives. As long as the hard drives are protected from being jolted, there's nothing to be concerned about toting a desktop around.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1775362 - 07/02/07 12:17 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
Great, so you can have a several rack space unit for some desktop, or a laptop that you can hold under your arm that'll do the same thing. Also, while yes the rack mounts are shock resistant, a rack is more likely to be tossed round than a laptop, and the laptop is designed inside for mobility protection, far better than the shock absorbers on a desktop will protect it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1775806 - 07/03/07 08:07 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
ADATs are only 8 tracks per unit, and pretty much extinct.
I know exactly what you are talking about, they were all the rage years past when lap[top computers lacked the power they do today, and this was the only option for remote DAW recording. Now, with laptops cheap and readily available, they are also pretty much extinct.
There is no power vs weight scenarios anymore. You can get a laptop as powerful as any desktop that will easily be powerful enough to record 24 or more tracks live. I do it, I know dozens of professional recording engineers that do it. None of them carry a racked up desktop, they all work on laptops.
You'd look pretty stupid trying to get a racked up desktop on a plane as carryon btw.
So, lets review, laptop that you can carry in one hand, or racked desktop that requires a 6-8 space rack....
Hmmmmm.....seems like a no brainer.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1775850 - 07/03/07 08:50 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
So, lets review, laptop that you can carry in one hand, or racked desktop that requires a 6-8 space rack....
Actually, it only requires 4 spaces, plus one for the monitor/keyboard-mouse tray, and considering I'll need a rack for my 16 channels of preamp and my 16 channels of firewire input anyway, what's a 10 space rack instead of 4?
Or are you suggesting I should forego having quality preamps and DAC's in my mobile rig for the sake of portability as well?
Edited by Griffinator (07/03/07 08:51 AM)
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1775863 - 07/03/07 09:10 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
what's a 10 space rack instead of 4?
6 spaces, making it way more easy to transport.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1775977 - 07/03/07 11:54 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
How is two separate pieces (laptop, plus rack) easier to transport than one (rack with everything in it)?
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1776076 - 07/03/07 02:23 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
Laptop in bag over shoulder, 4 sp rack in either hand, 1 hand free. You can actually carry this on a plane legally, I do it all the time.
10 sp rack requires one person occupying 2 hands or 2 people. 10 sp rack is not allowed as carryon. Plus there's the monitor to contend with.
4 sp rack wtih a laptop will weigh about 1/2 that of the 10sp rack with a desktop. 4 sp rack and laptop takes up about 1/3 the space as well.
Love to see you try working on your rig on a plane or train.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1776106 - 07/03/07 03:47 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
Laptop in bag over shoulder, 4 sp rack in either hand, 1 hand free. You can actually carry this on a plane legally, I do it all the time.
10 sp rack requires one person occupying 2 hands or 2 people. 10 sp rack is not allowed as carryon. Plus there's the monitor to contend with.
4 sp rack wtih a laptop will weigh about 1/2 that of the 10sp rack with a desktop. 4 sp rack and laptop takes up about 1/3 the space as well.
Love to see you try working on your rig on a plane or train.
10-space rack on wheels with an extending luggage handle and padlocks. They're everywhere. Look them up. Reason for 10 spaces (as I detailed above) was one space is occupied by a rack-mountable fold-away LCD flat-panel monitor with keyboard and mouse tray. So no, I won't be toting a monitor. Check it in at the luggage counter at the airport. Better yet, UPS Freight the damned thing and pick it up when I arrive at my destination. Why would I want to carry my rig on a plane in the first place?
(edited to add...)
I get it, you say something about "working on my rig on a plane"...
You don't seriously mean to tell me, after all the criticism you levelled at Miro for doing his mixing in a "non-standard" room, you do your editing and mixing in transit, in probably some of the worst acoustics available (a long tube with windows everywhere?)
Edited by Griffinator (07/03/07 03:49 PM)
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1776174 - 07/03/07 05:30 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
It's good you don't want to carry that on the plane, as you can't.
Professional engineers regularly edit on planes. Pretty easy to comp takes with headphones, compile a quick reference mix, or import tracks to a previous session that you're goign to be mixing when you land, etc. I do location work for TV and am constantly doing editing for broadcast on planes, as do all the video and tv engineers I know.
We also do paperwork, compose e-mails, do billing, like the rest of the business world does with their laptops.
10RU is 17.5" high. Add to that 2" for shock support and cheezey case and you got 19.5"x 21"x lets say 18" deep.
Airline regulations state carry-on bag dimensions should not be more than 9" x 14" x 22" (length + width + height) or 45 linear inches (the length, height and width added together). You ain't even close.
UPS your computer, that's a good one!!!!! Yea, lets put a desktop in a shock rack, then rack it and other shit so it's way too big to be carryon luggage, so we ship it UPS, and just maybe it'll eventually get there, and just maybe the UPS monkeys haven't tossed it too far and some of it might even still work.
Give it up man, and get with the program, or at least this century of technology. Anyway, here's a dollar go buy a clue.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1776176 - 07/03/07 05:31 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: Griffinator]
|
audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
|
|
Offline
|
|
It's good you don't want to carry that on the plane, as you can't.
Professional engineers regularly edit on planes. Pretty easy to comp takes with headphones, compile a quick reference mix, or import tracks to a previous session that you're goign to be mixing when you land, etc. I do location work for TV and am constantly doing editing for broadcast on planes, as do all the video and tv engineers I know.
We also do paperwork, compose e-mails, do billing, like the rest of the business world does with their laptops.
10RU is 17.5" high. Add to that 2" for shock support and cheezey case and you got 19.5"x 21"x lets say 18" deep.
Airline regulations state carry-on bag dimensions should not be more than 9" x 14" x 22" (length + width + height) or 45 linear inches (the length, height and width added together). You ain't even close.
UPS your computer, that's a good one!!!!! Yea, lets put a desktop in a shock rack, then rack it and other shit so it's way too big to be carryon luggage, so we ship it UPS, and just maybe it'll eventually get there, and just maybe the UPS monkeys haven't tossed it too far and some of it might even still work.
Give it up man, and get with the program, or at least this century of technology. Anyway, here's a dollar go buy a clue.
Oh, and BTW, since you obviously didn't read, or couldn't comprehend the post about one room studios, we were discussing tracking, not mixing.
Here's another dollar, you're gonna need it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1776220 - 07/03/07 06:28 PM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
I bow to thy never-ending river of knowledge, oh great one.
Is that what you want to hear, you arrogant jerk?
I'm done with you.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1776367 - 07/04/07 12:39 AM
Re: New to recording looking to buy equipment laptop recording
[Re: audiorulez]
|
Jim Quinn
Senior Administrator
Gold Member
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 712
Loc: Chicago
|
|
Offline
|
|
Personal insults and digs are not welcome here. Get along or be gone.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: FoxTick, Bunny Knutson
|
|
|
