#1765762 - 06/12/07 11:45 AM
Deciding on a new mixer
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NUTT
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Registered: 11/13/03
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Loc: Houston
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Let me preface this post by saying that I'm the appointed "soundman" for the band. I'm under-qualified in this respect and have little to no experience. Unfortunately "little to no" experience is more than anyone else has (plus I have the PA equipment).
So, I'm sick of this digital mixer I have (Fostex VM 200) to just run the PA for band practice and small gigs. It is too complicated and I don't have the time to figure it out right now. I'm going to put it in the closet for awhile and get something more simple.
Equipment list:
Fostex VM200
Peavey PV 1500 power amp
Soundtech 15" monitors
Lots of cables
Shure SM58 & SM57 mics
Shure Beta87 condenser mic (not used much)
Sennheiser E835 mic (vocal)
Will be getting a new power amp and some decent mains in the next few months.
So, I'm browsing the latest Musicians Friend catalog and checking out my options for a mixer.
Limiting factor is the budget. I'd really like to keep it under $150 and won't spend more than $200.
For inputs I have the following:
2 Vocals
2 Acoustic Guitars (w/ onboard pre's)
1 Violin (1/4" mono)
I'd like to leave myself some room for expansion if at all possible. I can see us running 3 or 4 vocal mics and adding a couple more guitars/stringed instruments in there.
I'd also like the option of running a seperate monitor mix, although I don't really know how to do this (I'm thinking 4 bus mixer). Keep this in mind when spending my money for me.
As much as I dislike Behringer and their business practices, it seems that my budget is forcing me towards them.
I'm looking a the following:
Behringer Xenyx 1204
Yamaha MG12/4
Peavey PV8
If I had the money I'd just get a Mackie 1642, but I don't have the $500 for one, nor can I justify spending $500 on a mixer.
Thanks for the help,
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#1765816 - 06/12/07 01:22 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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NUTT
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Posts: 2339
Loc: Houston
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Okay, so after looking a bit more I might be inclined to bit the bullet and spend a few dollars more on the Peavey PV10 if it the effects and USB will make it oh so much better.
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#1767236 - 06/16/07 01:01 AM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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jay da cop
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 538
Loc: Waldoboro, Maine
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There's always the used market. Places like Daddy's Junky Music (New England - daddys.com, but they don't mail order) or Rogue Music, in New York, or Caruso Music in Connecticut (OK, I live in New England, so that's how I know these places). There are more all over the place, to include your local swap shop magazine. There's also the new Tapco line of mixers that are quite inexpensive, and they are from the same company that makes Mackie.
Just giving you a few more options. Also, never be afraid to "invest" in your gear. You may not need the inputs or features now, but you will grow into, or out of, your gear, unless you quit altogether, and that is never an option.
Jay
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#1768105 - 06/18/07 01:21 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: jay da cop]
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NUTT
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I actually picked up the Yamaha on clearance from Musicians Friend. Rather than getting the USB mixer I think I'm going to pick up a USB interface, leaning toward the Lexicon Lambda.
Thanks for the reply.
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#1768709 - 06/19/07 04:42 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9871
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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...nor can I justify spending $500 on a mixer.
If you can't justify spending $500 on a mixer, you're basically announcing that you couldn't care less about build quality or sound quality.
The best mass-produced analog boards out there are still in the $40-50,000 range.
A 4-buss for less than $200? You're buying crap. Straight up. There is no quality to be had in a brand new 4-buss for less than $200.
Of course, ignorance is bliss, right? As long as you don't have a catastrophic failure in the middle of a gig, you'll never find out how bad that cheap mixer makes your band sound versus how much better an Allen & Heath GL, Soundcraft Spirit or Ghost, or even an old Mackie VLZ-Pro would.
Oh - BTW - you're not talking to someone with a studio full of esoteric gear. I'm a hard-working musician with limited funds, just like you - but I've also worked with sound guys who brought garbage, and sound guys who brought quality gear, and the difference in how the band sounds in the FOH mix is night and day - and worth the money.
Consider this: No one ever says a band "had a great sound quality" - but plenty of people have said that a band that played great "sounded crappy". You want to ruin all your hard work executing your parts on stage by cheaping out on your PA?
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#1769170 - 06/20/07 02:49 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: Griffinator]
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NUTT
MP Hall of Fame Member
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Loc: Houston
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If you can't justify spending $500 on a mixer, you're basically announcing that you couldn't care less about build quality or sound quality.
I think those are some pretty harsh words.
I'm a bass player and play some fairly decent gear. Much of the gear I'm playing through I saved dilligently to get. Some of it I bought on the used market to save some money and some of it I just bought on credit and paid for later.
I very much care about the build quality of gear that I use.
A 4-buss for less than $200? You're buying crap. Straight up. There is no quality to be had in a brand new 4-buss for less than $200.
Of course, ignorance is bliss, right?
Maybe ingorance is bliss, maybe not.
I ended up snagging the Yamaha 12/4 for $150 on clearance/warehouse sale from Musicians Friend (marked down from $200). While the Yamaha stuff isn't high brow, it isn't bad. I could have done a lot worse.
I've played a gig through an identical mixer and the sound was good. Our frontman did some solo acoustic stuff and he sounded great.
All that said, this won't likely see very many gigs. It is for running sound in my garage during practice. I'll be very surprised if it does blow up in the middle of a gig. If it does, it will be lesson learned.
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#1769176 - 06/20/07 03:04 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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NUTT
MP Hall of Fame Member
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Loc: Houston
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Oh, and for the record, you said
THIS:
Well put, Randal.
Heck, Yamaha's got some stout 16-channel rackmount mixers in the $300 range - and believe it or not, those little MG's will take a BEATING - I know - I had one of the little $100 10-channel jobbers and we put it through the wringer - spilled beer, cigarette ash, you name it - finally crapped out after someone dumped half a beer right down the mic inputs - fried the board - but not before it took 3 years worth of serious abuse!
In THIS THREAD.
So I guess I didn't do so bad for $150, eh?
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#1769247 - 06/20/07 05:30 PM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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Griffinator
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Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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Only problem with that Yammy is you'll run out of mic inputs. Did you happen to notice when you ordered it that, although it's listed as a 12-channel, it actually has only 6 XLR inputs with 6 mic pres? (the rest are stereo 1/4" pairs, which gives you only 9 real channels)
Per your requirements:
2 vocal mics (would like to get up to 4)
2 acoustic guitars w/onboard pre's (and DI boxes, I would hope. If not, you're seriously missing the boat on your tone)
1 violin (1/4" mono? A piezo on the instrument, I presume?)
And you'd also like to be able to get more instruments involved. Well, even if you don't use the direct-injection boxes, that mixer has a maximum of 9 channels available to you (again, it says 12, but the three stereo pairs share channel strips, so it's effectively 9)
Otherwise, no, there's nothing wrong with it, and that's not a bad snag for $150. It's not a great sounding board, but the pre's aren't noisy, and as I stated in the other thread, the damned things sure can take a beating.
The "harsh" statement I made was in response to a statement made (in my view) out of abject ignorance. If you can't "justify" paying $500 for a mixer, then you've obviously never heard a really great mixer in action. Again, I've had direct comparisons, working with a sound crew that used Behringer Eurodesk (MX9000, about $1200 for a 48 channel 8-buss) - the bottom of the proverbial barrel in live boards, then with a crew that used an Allen & Heath GL2400-32 ($2500 for a 32 channel 4-buss) - a good stout mid-to-upper scale live board, and the difference is night and day.
Think about it like this:
If I came up to you and said "I'm looking for a quality bass and amplifier. I'd like to keep it all under $150, maximum $200 for both. I really like the Yamaha BB active series, but I can't justify spending $500 for a bass guitar!"
How would you respond to that? You'd probably laugh your ass off, wouldn't you.
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#1769511 - 06/21/07 08:51 AM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: Griffinator]
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NUTT
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I think in the end the frugal side of me jumped in. I trust the Yamaha brand and settled for less inputs and a less expensive board. I decided that if the band expands, I'll have to get a bigger mixer and have some other band members fork over some cash for sound equipment as well (mics, cables, etc).
I did consider a Mackie 1604 VLZPro; 16 mic pres, lots of routing options, etc. But the justification to spend that kind of money wasn't there.
If my band starts getting large gigs where we need to provide our own sound, I'd be all over it. I'll also be picking up mains, subs, and a couple more poweramps as well as a snake and all of the related cabling. I've got a friend that can run sound from the FOH if needed.
But, we don't play anywhere big enough that we have to run drums, bass or the electric guitars throught he PA. We just run vocals and acoustic instruments.
Think about it like this:
If I came up to you and said "I'm looking for a quality bass and amplifier. I'd like to keep it all under $150, maximum $200 for both. I really like the Yamaha BB active series, but I can't justify spending $500 for a bass guitar!"
How would you respond to that? You'd probably laugh your ass off, wouldn't you.
You're right, I'd be laughing at the fool. I'd point him towards a passive bass (probably Mexi-Fender or Yamaha) on the used market.
However, I feel that my request was a little more realistic than that. And, I didn't say that I wanted quality, I said that I wanted bang for the buck.
I'm a big fan of Peavey gear for that reason. I've owned Peavey basses and guitars, my current backup rig is a Peavey and my monitor power amp is a Peavey.
And, for the record, I do appreciate the help.
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#1769521 - 06/21/07 09:30 AM
Re: Deciding on a new mixer
[Re: NUTT]
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Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9871
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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BTW - the Yamaha BB thing was an off-the-top-of-my-head bit - I used to own a Yammy BB 5 string that I snagged used for about $450. Nice deal, regretted selling it.
Re: Peavey - I'd avoid their PA speakers and mixers like the plague. Their old CS800's were mainstays in most budget band's PA's for a long time, and are definitely built well, but they use some pretty crap-tacular drivers in their PA speakers, and their mixers have no clarity in the high end and no extension in the low.
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