#1824412 - 10/14/07 06:18 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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Not without re-recording you can't, but then we've already discussed that.
Please tell me your solution for the scenario in my past post(regarding lengthening a chord) with your daw, I'd love to hear it.
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#1824441 - 10/14/07 07:46 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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Unless you totally don't like a particular track, or you need a totally new track of something you do not already have recorded...
...you don't necessarily need to "re-record" just to fix a few notes or a few hits or a few chords or a few phrases.
With cross-fade editing, I've extended chords/notes MANY times in the DAW...and I guarantee that you could not find the edit point with your ears! 
Especially things like synth pads, organs, strings...they are very easy to manipulate in the DAW.
I would say that at least 90% of the time, you already have all you need within your existing audio tracks...you just have to do some creative editing by taking from one section, manipulating as needed, and then adding it at the required section.
I’m sure you done some of that type of editing, haven’t you…?
I've always said...to me, the real strong point of a DAW, are the editing capabilities.
Except for creating some basic scratch tracks during pre-production, just to lay out the song structure and it’s tempo....I've been recording "MIDI-free", audio-only sessions for quite awhile now.
It's just a question of knowing what you can and can't do in your DAW.
And…I will often record some additional “sounds” when tracking.
Like…long chord strums…or additional cymbal hits…or certain vowels and phrases…
…that way, when I am editing, I can also use these if needed to edit into the existing tracks.
It’s just a question of knowing ahead of time what it is you want to do with a song.
If you just record a bunch of tracks…and then wait until the editing/mixing phase to consider arrangements and song direction…then you are really still doing pre-production…which is fine, but that’s a different use of studio time.
With a good DAW and it’s editing capabilities…most needs can be met without having to involve MIDI tracks as a “safety net”…
…though like I keep saying…if you prefer using MIDI tracks…there is nothing wrong with that, it’s just a different SOP. 
I prefer not to.
And…let’s not now get into a whole extended debate about what can and can’t be done within a DAW… 
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1824660 - 10/14/07 08:16 PM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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In the time it takes me to type this I can stretch those notes the addtional 1/4 note the artist wants.
Now, back to the OP's question. Stick with your midi for now, and spend the money on a decent mixer instead. The quality of a decent mixer in that price range is far above that of a pre/adda in the same range. Budget in a good 2 channel spdif AD to go from mixer to 001 (bypassing the crappy 001 coverters). This IMHO is the best scenario for quality audio given your hardware limitations.
Edited by Jim Quinn (10/14/07 10:33 PM)
Edit Reason: Removed what I consider personal attacks.
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#1824748 - 10/15/07 06:15 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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I'm sure we are all quite familiar with the process, and know that it takes a lot longer than it does to etend a midi note 1/4 note, and the midi note edit is much simpler than editing the actual audio. Not to mention if there are multiple tracks (as in the case of what the OP's orignal post suggested) the time it takes is even greater.
Example: 4 stereo track, lets say brass, reeds, strings and organ.
We'll use the afore mentioned example.
For me, I select the notes (click-drag) and extend the 1/4 note and I'm done.
For you, since each pair of tracks has unique audio properties, you will need to stretch then x-fade each one separately, requiring you to work on each one individually, first stretching, then getting each of the 4 x-fades right so they are clean and inaudible.
In the time it took me to type how it' done with midi I'd be done.
For you, well you're telling the client to go have some coffee.. You may say you're not, we know different, so please don't insult our intelligence and say you can do it as fast.
AFA the "virtual safety net" I can undo that edit just as fast. This is the digital domain, unless you are an idiot nothing gets destroyed. In this case it's a matter of simply once again click-drag to select and shortening the notes 1/4 note.
But again we digress from the OP's question. OP, Stick with your midi for now, and spend the money on a decent mixer instead. The quality of a decent mixer in that price range is far above that of a pre/adda in the same range. Budget in a good 2 channel spdif AD to go from mixer to 001 (bypassing the crappy 001 coverters). This IMHO is the best scenario for quality audio given your hardware limitations.
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#1824798 - 10/15/07 07:42 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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Like I mentioned a couple of posts ago...let's not now get into a whole dragged out debate on what one can or can not do with a DAW.
The thrust of your debate so far has been that MIDI is the way to go until the very last mixing stage…right?
I just don't find that to be the case.
I know your approach...I've used your approach when I was mixing 10-20-30 MIDI tracks/instruments at a time.
I don't bother with that anymore...as I prefer to just work with audio tracks.
If there are 2-3 instruments/sounds that I may use that happen to have MIDI capability...I just find it easier and less complicated to make my arrangement/production decisions with them by treating them just like any other instrument (guitar, drums, bass…etc)…and so I record them as audio tracks.
I've gotten pretty good and quick using the corss-fade approach, and I find it much simpler/easier/quicker than having to always "attach" virtual MIDI instruments to every editing/mixing sessions until I'm finally done.
I'm not sure why you have to keep going on and on how YOUR way is the better way...???
This is a constant "theme" with you no matter which thread you are on and no matter with whom you debate.
You just went through the same thing on a couple of recent threads…
As I’ve said many time in the past…there are many SOPs that work.
You go with what works for you…and let others go with what works for them…
…without you always beating down THEIR chosen SOP in every thread on these forums.
It’s becoming a very predictable approach with you.
Why not just discuss audio without all that?
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1825353 - 10/16/07 05:58 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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I suggeest you re-read the OP.
I never said my way was better, once again don't put words in my mouth. Obviously it is faster and more convenient in some situations, such as the client wishing to make changes, which yes does happen during overdubbing and mixing.
OP, Stick with your midi for now, and spend the money on a decent mixer instead. The quality of a decent mixer in that price range is far above that of a pre/adda in the same range. Budget in a good 2 channel spdif AD to go from mixer to 001 (bypassing the crappy 001 coverters). This IMHO is the best scenario for quality audio given your hardware limitations.
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#1825700 - 10/16/07 04:21 PM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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You may never say "your way is better"...
...but pounding down every poster, and continually negating all other suggested SOPs (except your own)...
...is the same thing.
You do that in just about every thread, and with just about every poster who thinks differently from you.
It's become quite a regular thing....and others have said the same to you...so I know I am not off the mark.
I really don't understand why there can't be room for more than one way...more than one SOP?
You have good points...BUT...they are not the ONLY good points around here.
And just to close this "MIDI" debate....
I know a lot a people who NEVER bother with MIDI...instead they recored their synths just like they would any other instrument.
Works real good.
You are placing way too much importance on MIDI tracks.
But I will not bother debating with you any more on this topic...it's pointless.
Just to be clear...
I really do not wish to argue with you (or anyone for that matter).
It would be nice to debate issues...I like debating...but at some point there has to be equal give and take of ideas. And regardless of how much we agree or disagree...there should be some exchange of respect, otherwise it DOES become one person's forced view over all others.
Don't you agree?
Edited by miroslav (10/16/07 04:41 PM)
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1825924 - 10/17/07 06:55 AM
Re: Advice on a good preamp a/d converter
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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1. I'm not arguing.
2. Midi editing is faster than audio editing in the discussed scenario.
3. I never said there was only one SOP.
4. I never "pounded down" anything.
5. I never said mine were the only good points here.
6. Certainly recording audio from midi sources works fine, until you need to make musical changes. Then MIDI is far faster in most cases to edit.
7. You should try giving a bit. Seems you are the one trying to "pound down" your way over anyone elses, and neglected the OP entirely.
8. Seems most every post you are involved with eventually ends up with you complaining when someone doesn't see things your way.
OP, Stick with your midi for now, and spend the money on a decent mixer instead. The quality of a decent mixer in that price range is far above that of a pre/adda in the same range. Budget in a good 2 channel spdif AD to go from mixer to 001 (bypassing the crappy 001 coverters). This IMHO is the best scenario for quality audio given your hardware limitations.
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