#1728420 - 04/03/07 11:05 PM
$100-150 mics
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Moog_Man
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what are the best mics in this price range to mic:
piano
guitar amp
I hear that a dual set of small diaphram condensers is needed to mic acoustic pianos in some sort of x y formation. anyone know about this?
Also it seems the standard for mikin guitar amps is the sm57. is this correct or are there better ones for around the same price? The 57 seems to be good for miking the guitar amp live as well, and it would be nice if it could serve both studio and live purposes. oh yes and the amp is a fender twin (2x12)
thanks
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#1728507 - 04/04/07 07:47 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Moog_Man]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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The 57 is a great guitar mic. I did a shootout among a bunch of them, and the 57 was still the prefered sound among a large sampling of listeners, both pros and friends.
I used the Sennheiser 680e, the Studio Projects B-1, the BLUE Ball, the 57 and some more expensive options. Each of these mics has it's good points and bad points, but overall, the 57 is very versitle and has been a standard for many years. Unlike it's sibling the 58 which is popular on stages but not so much in studios, you'll find the 57 being used in most every studio in the world in some capacity or another.
If you want a better guitar mic, you might consider a pair of Royer 121s, but that is significantly more money.
In terms of micing a piano, there are several ways to do this and some choices will depend on the piano in question. Tell us about it.
Bill
Edited by Bill@Welcome Home Studios (04/04/07 06:21 PM)
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#1728845 - 04/04/07 05:35 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Moog_Man
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Ah, I apologize for not providing the obviously necessary information! The piano is an upright Schimmel, a very nice German piano. It has a pretty dark sound which I like, as opposed to the popish Yamaha piano sound, so if any miking techniques in this regard are different please inform me. Styles of music recorded with it are going to be mostly for a progressive/electronic pink floydish sound. The piano is about five feet tall.
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#1728867 - 04/04/07 06:33 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Moog_Man]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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There are a couple of ways to mic an upright, my favorite being to remove the kickplate and put a large diaphram mic on a short stand there by the harp; to open the lid and put a mic or two above the opening; or to put a couple of mics on the back side of the sound board (least favorite). Adjusting the placement of a singe mic by the harp can really affect the sound, since the mic is so close.
It might also be possible to open up the piano. If so, a couple of strips of duct tape can hold a lavalier mic or two almost anywhere on the harp, so you can really focus in on elements of the sound.
Now, if the room supports it, it is always wonderful to do some distance micing with such a large acoustic instrument. Last year I recorded an album of Rachmananoff compositions, but we used a full sized grand in a concert hall. I used two mics set up as a stereo pair, about ten feet in front of the bow at the height of a seated listener. In addition to other minor room treatment, I put the piano cover on the floor between the piano and the mics to reduce early reflections, and we had to get something under the foot of the player, who was tapping furiously on the hard wood stage floor.
There are books on the subject of micing techniques, explaining what each is and how to use them, with the advantages and disadvantages to each method listed. You might consider picking one of these books up, as they are quite handy.
Bill
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#1729381 - 04/05/07 03:38 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Alcuin804
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The 57 is a great guitar mic. I did a shootout among a bunch of them, and the 57 was still the prefered sound among a large sampling of listeners, both pros and friends.
Bill
Did you try the Shure Beta 57, or the new Audio-Technica ATM650? Both those mics are HYPERcardioid as opposed to just plain cardioid--from reviews I've been reading, they outperform the SM57.
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#1729407 - 04/05/07 04:22 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Alcuin804]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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No, this test was a couple of years ago, when the 680 and BLUE Ball were new. I also had an original 480, on which the 680 was based.
It is possible that the vast majority of people expect a guitar to sound as if it was miced with a 57 because that is the prevaling mic used for that purpose in studios, so that is the sound that they are used to hearing.
The polar pattern of a mic does not make it better or worse than another mic. Others have chimed in in favor of the Beta series Shures, and I'll defer to their judgements. I am not a fan of the Shure Betas other than the 87, and I'll not use them when given a choice. But the mics that I do use are beyond the scope of this discussion of $100-150 mics.
I would like to understand a functional difference between the performance of a hypercardiod and a cardiod mic when placed 1 inch from the grille cloth. The difference in the rear lobes will probably make a difference in the sound, but the on-axis response between the two patterns at that distance should be pretty moot.
Over the years AT mics in general have been some of my least favorite sounding professional mics. But then the 30 series and the 40 series showed up, and I've been pleasantly pleased with their sound. When they show up, I'm happy to use them. But I have not seen this 650 that you speak of. I probably will never get exposed to it, if it is a low budget choice, just because the sound vendors that supply audio for the venues and artists that I work with would not be bringing in the low budget choices. Since I rarely get to work in the clubs anymore, I don't get to see what the club PAs show up with. (My loss, I know. I dearly miss watching four or five guys with no moving lights or fog machines up there on stage thrashing away at that is really important to them. The honesty is fun. The earnest enthusiasm is fun)
Bill
Edited by Bill@Welcome Home Studios (04/05/07 07:20 PM)
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#1729469 - 04/05/07 05:41 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Moog_Man
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The 57 sounds like the right choice!
It sounds like there are many ways to mic a piano, for it is mostly personal preference. I think I'll experiment around to try the one that will work best.
My only last questions are
Any good mics for miking the piano in this price range?
Also it sounds at though I will need these in a pair, + maybe a large diaphram. Is this correct?
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#1729524 - 04/05/07 07:25 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Moog_Man]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Any good mics for miking the piano in this price range?
Also it sounds at though I will need these in a pair, + maybe a large diaphram. Is this correct?
If I was building a low budget mic kit from scratch, I's probaby look at a Studio Projects B-1 LD condenser as a replacement for the 57, because it can do double duty on electric and acoustic guitar and as a low priced LD wherever you need an LD, including on the upright piano. The B-1 is about $100. There are some low cost small diaphragm condensers that are worth looking at, probably at about $75 each or so I would guess. Then I'd try to have one good dynamic mic, like a Beyer M-69 or maybe that aforementioned 57, but a Beyer M-88 or Sennheiser 441 would be better.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1731080 - 04/09/07 01:21 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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B3-er
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Believe it or not, but I've had good luck with mic'ing a piano with two SM57s back when I had nothing else.
I have two B1's. They are nice mics. I have not tried them on guitar amps, but they would probably work very well in that situation, as well as on piano. I usually go with a 57, a Shure 330 ribbon, or an MXL V57 (which sounds amazingly good on amps, believe it or not).
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#1736167 - 04/17/07 07:53 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: B3-er]
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britune
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Get an SM57 for guitar and a Rode NT-1A ($200) for the piano. The Rode can be found used for less.
I like the SM57 against the amp grill. I don't know if it's a better sound than other mics, but it's a sound that the world is used to. It sounds right because we have all heard it so much.
Edited by britune (04/17/07 07:54 AM)
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#1736437 - 04/17/07 04:37 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: britune]
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Moog_Man
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I bought an sm57 and I must say that thing kicks some ass! Very accurate sounding. I haven't really experimented with different angles but man does it sound good. Defines my rhodes electric piano very well. I'm still researching the piano mics. Thanks for your input guys
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#1738816 - 04/21/07 05:33 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Alcuin804]
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whereO219O
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The 57 is a great guitar mic. I did a shootout among a bunch of them, and the 57 was still the prefered sound among a large sampling of listeners, both pros and friends.
Bill
Did you try the Shure Beta 57, or the new Audio-Technica ATM650? Both those mics are HYPERcardioid as opposed to just plain cardioid--from reviews I've been reading, they outperform the SM57.
Depends on the application. I love the Beta57A for a live vocal mic, but it's IMHO far to bright for electric guitar.
My cheap mic of choice for electric guitar is the Sennheiser E609S. $100, amazing sound. Also a great sax and trumpet mic.
For piano, and general cheap SDC, the Samson CO2 is tough to beat. $120/pr with shockmounts, and they sound like they cost 10X that. A true sleeper mic.
Typically I mic uprights with a pair of 414's about 2 feet from the rear, but it depends on the room and how much bleed if there are other players in the room.
I've also had great success taping a Shure SM91 inside. Excellent isolation, good quality sound.
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#1754572 - 05/20/07 09:44 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: whereO219O]
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Ressurrector
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interesting question and come down to what you want or need a condensor or dynamic............ 57's are great for guitars and snare but sound like shit on vocals unless you want people to scream in them everytime you record them lol
mmmm I would say behringer b-2 pro its a condensor and think it ranks in about 150 has like 3 polar switches and dont sound bad for price spend 50 more get a rode nt-1
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#1769036 - 06/20/07 09:55 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Ressurrector]
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audiorulez
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Great piano mics on the cheap...Samson CO2's. A pair, with shockmounts, goes for $130. DO NOT LET THIS FOOL YOU!!!! These are AMAZING SDC mics, equal to or better than SM81's IMHO. I have personally used them on piano, drums (OH's) violins and violas (classical orchestration), acoustic guitar and percussion with great success.
AFA electric guitar goes, you can't go wrong with an SM57. It also makes a decent on the cheap vocal mic (and no you don't need singers to scream into it). Second choice would be a sennheiser e609s for $100. Great electric guitar mic.
Stay away from the Behringer junk. Poorly built, often cheaply copied from their competitors, and absolutely no quality control.
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#1769214 - 06/20/07 04:34 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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So will most any mic, except a ribbon.
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#1769219 - 06/20/07 04:41 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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Merely wordplaying, bro. Although I have exceeded the clip point on a couple LD condensors in my life.
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#1769266 - 06/20/07 06:06 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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Merely wordplaying, bro. Although I have exceeded the clip point on a couple LD condensors in my life.
Then you have very poor mic technique, or are simply ignorant of same.
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#1769281 - 06/20/07 06:22 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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At the time (8 years or so ago) you could definitely say I was completely ignorant of mic technique, as was the guy recording me.
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#1769408 - 06/21/07 12:10 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: britune]
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Moog_Man
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I just ordered a pair of CO2s! I'll let ya guys know how it goes.
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#1769550 - 06/21/07 10:55 AM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: Moog_Man]
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whereO219O
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Congrats, I'm confident you will be very happy with them. While downright cheap, they are really superb mics.
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#1769815 - 06/21/07 06:38 PM
Re: $100-150 mics
[Re: whereO219O]
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Griffinator
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Welcome back, man. They finally get their panties unbunched after the forum change debacle?
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