#1710239 - 03/01/07 01:32 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Charlie Vegas]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1131
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I like my MS KP-200S a lot. It is NOT loud enough on it's own to keep up with loud guitar stacks, but is plenty for stage volume. (If not, then it's way too #$@%ing loud on stage.) The SLR lines out can go to the PA if more volume is needed.
That being said, I have no experience playing or even hearing the other two amps on your list.
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Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.
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#1710279 - 03/01/07 02:38 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Charlie Vegas]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 1066
Loc: Detroit area
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Does anyone have any experience with any of these stereo amps? What do you think? I don't want to debate keyboard amps verses powered speakers. Hi -- I think if you try a search of this forum you'll find MANY thoughts about and reviews of stereo amps.
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#1710490 - 03/01/07 09:01 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: DanS]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 1279
Loc: Atlanta, Georgia USA
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I'm looking at the K4 myself. I like the way it can do double duty as a monitor from the FOH mixer. So can the KP-200s... it has a "click input" with it's own volume control that can work as a vocal or FOH monitor.
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#1710567 - 03/02/07 02:40 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: The Pro]
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MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 3090
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I think the Groove Tube is very poor sounding and weak. I like the Traynor more than the Motion Sound.
Edited by Jazz+ (03/02/07 02:42 AM)
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Roland FP4 (33 lbs), EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand, padded keyboard bag. Mason & Hamlin acoustic.
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#1710664 - 03/02/07 09:32 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Legatoboy]
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MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 3049
Loc: Georgia USA
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Ehhh....I use my litle P.A. system. It's a Mackie 808S with 2 Peavey SP2's which have a 15" & horn in each cab. It's not bad and it's stereo so that's cool.  Otherwise, I'll practice through headphones. Randy S.
Edited by Strategery (03/02/07 09:33 AM)
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#1710733 - 03/02/07 11:56 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: The Pro]
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MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 4124
Loc: Montréal
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I'm looking at the K4 myself. I like the way it can do double duty as a monitor from the FOH mixer. So can the KP-200s... it has a "click input" with it's own volume control that can work as a vocal or FOH monitor. The KP is at least $200 more, 100w less, & difficult to find up here.
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#1710796 - 03/02/07 01:41 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Legatoboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 176
Loc: ne ohio
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I use a K4, too. Wish it had some form of wheels on it. What's a BBE 362?
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#1710879 - 03/02/07 03:35 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: tarkus]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 1452
Loc: NYC
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#1711997 - 03/05/07 03:12 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Legatoboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 93
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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I'm about to purchase a K4. My thought on any "phasey-ness" is that it's probably caused by substantially in-phase material (i.e. same material in L and R channels) being played out of both the left and right mid & high speakers at the same time. Playing the same audio out of two speakers can create interference patters, and "peaks and valleys" across a room at various frequencies. If the "phasy-ness" seems to change when you move your head, this is probably it.
I would expect that phase problems in the low-frequency mono-summed 12-inch speaker would manifest as quieter/coloured bass sound. But this would only happen for low-frequency sounds that are out of phase between the left and right channels, which is rare - more likely that a patch cable is wired wrong or something in this situation.
I've only had a chance to play a K4 in the store so far (admittedly not the best environment), but I didn't detect anything too weird-sounding. Can't wait to bring one home & give it a good going over!
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#1772617 - 06/27/07 11:09 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Legatoboy]
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Member
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Tampa Bay, FLA
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I've since played a Groove Tube SFX-100 and a Motion Sound KP-200S. While the KP-200S is the better of the two, both are under powered and sound nasally.
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#1772875 - 06/27/07 05:17 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Legatoboy]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 274
Loc: Rocky Mtn West
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My favorite stereo keyboard amp is 2 Roland KC-500s.
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#1773150 - 06/28/07 07:09 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: DanS]
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MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 2701
Loc: Va.
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I've owned two of these amps and tried the others.
My impression: Motion Sound sounds best (actually excellent), especially for stereo. But it's underpowered - not as powerful as the Traynor, and doesn't seem to be very well built. The Traynor is clear and loud, and built to last. But the stereo on the K4 is not very effective because the sub is summed to mono.
But both Traynor and Motion Sound have an overall good sound.
I didn't keep either these amps because of the weight and the reasons mentioned. Keyboard amps have improved, but none of them can match a good stereo speaker setup.
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#1777630 - 07/06/07 12:57 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: SK]
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Gold Member
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 652
Loc: New Hope, PA
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I have all 3. The GT Space Station actually sounds VERY GOOD if coupled with a subwoofer/bass amp. And it still makes a very compact rig.. I agree with all observations about the K4 and the MS.
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#1777951 - 07/07/07 11:45 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: DanS]
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MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 3026
Loc: NC, USA
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This is a meaningless statistic.
The difference between 200W and 300W is negligible -- about 1.5 dB, less than the variation in wattage specs between different manufacturers. Furthermore, wattage is meaningless without efficiency specs for the speaker. And in a case like this where it's total wattage split between 2 or 3 amps, allocation of the wattage can make a big difference.
In any case, for two units that are this similar, specs won't answer which is louder: you have to listen to them. The result of checking the specs should lead to the conclusion "Too close to tell from the specs".
Remember that you need 10 times the power to be twice as loud (10dB louder), 4 times the power to get twice the amplitude (6dB louder), and double the power only gives you 3dB (which is definitely audible and helpful, but not a whole new ballgame). 50% more power is really small potatoes, detectable but less than the measurement error between different systems/setups.
Folks on this thread do say that the Traynor sounds louder; my guess is that this is mostly due to the consolidation of the bass channel, far more than the measly 50% more total watts. In any case, the sound is what counts.
I use a stereo powered mixer that has a selector for 100/300/500 watts per channel. I never use the 300W setting since it's barely quieter than the 500W setting. 100W is nice for practice and definitely quieter than 500W.
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#1778032 - 07/07/07 02:51 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: learjeff]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1358
Loc: Southern Israel
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This is a meaningless statistic.
The difference between 200W and 300W is negligible -- about 1.5 dB, less than the variation in wattage specs between different manufacturers. Furthermore, wattage is meaningless without efficiency specs for the speaker. And in a case like this where it's total wattage split between 2 or 3 amps, allocation of the wattage can make a big difference.
In any case, for two units that are this similar, specs won't answer which is louder: you have to listen to them. The result of checking the specs should lead to the conclusion "Too close to tell from the specs".
Remember that you need 10 times the power to be twice as loud (10dB louder), 4 times the power to get twice the amplitude (6dB louder), and double the power only gives you 3dB (which is definitely audible and helpful, but not a whole new ballgame). 50% more power is really small potatoes, detectable but less than the measurement error between different systems/setups.
Folks on this thread do say that the Traynor sounds louder; my guess is that this is mostly due to the consolidation of the bass channel, far more than the measly 50% more total watts. In any case, the sound is what counts.
I use a stereo powered mixer that has a selector for 100/300/500 watts per channel. I never use the 300W setting since it's barely quieter than the 500W setting. 100W is nice for practice and definitely quieter than 500W.
There are different ways to achieve power. For example, getting a pair of 500 watt speakers and stacking them one next to the other will give you 6db more volume (which is more than noticable) than a single 1000 watt speaker of same cone diameter..It's all about sound pressure.
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#1778142 - 07/07/07 10:18 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: SK]
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Gold Member
Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 539
Loc: Michigan
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....Keyboard amps have improved, but none of them can match a good stereo speaker setup. I couldn't agree more! A small stereo PA setup outperforms any of the self contained keyboard amps. It may cost a little more - and be a little more complex in terms of set up - however the sound of your keys running through a small PA simply can't be beat.
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#1778174 - 07/08/07 12:44 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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Platinum Member
Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 1870
Loc: Glendale , CA.
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Like most people that use DP's/synths for gigging, I'm always trying to get improved sound and portability.
In most cases I feel that the small PA outperforms the amps.
However, I did come to choose my Motion sound KP200 over the JBL EON's 10".
I came to the JBL's from the Barbetta's. At the time I thought the JBL's weren't as muddy in the mids as the Sona's. Awhile later I do remember A-B'ing the 10" Eon's and the KP200. The MS was much clearer from what I recall, so I dumped the Eons.
Currently, I do prefer the powered speakers to the amp. Unfortunately, most of the venues I seem to be working these days have limited set up space.
The two Mackie SM450's I have, while sounding better than the MS200, are overkill has far as size/footprint, weight and power. Plus, there have been many improvements in powered speaker's since the 450's came out. The combination of the light weight power amp/passive speakers have also improved.
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#1778483 - 07/08/07 09:00 PM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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Gold Member
Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 539
Loc: Michigan
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...Unfortunately, most of the venues I seem to be working these days have limited set up space... Dave makes a good point about having limited set up space - which can be a challenge if you're using a small PA setup. My "keys" PA consists of a small slant rack that holds my power amp, Motif rack mount, MIDI interface, rack mount CD player, Furman rack mount power conditioner in the vertical part of the rack and a small Yamaha board in the "slant" part of the rack - along with a pair of JBL JRX112M floor wedges. A buddy of mine worked for a sound company - and sold me a second top cover identical to the one that's part of my rack. I cut the front 1/3 of it off and now simply put the partial cover on the top at gigs - leaving me with a sturdy platform that I use to put one of the monitor speakers on - while still giving me access to the sliders on the mixer. I also take a spare "aux" feed off the main PA mixer with my personal monitor mix that I run through an unused channel and use my "key" PA for my monitor as well. Combined it's reduced my stage footprint to something roughly equivalent of that I had with my old "keyboard amp" and PA floor wedge monitor setup.
Edited by SpaceNorman (07/09/07 12:08 AM)
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#1778693 - 07/09/07 11:04 AM
Re: Stereo Keyboard Amp
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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Member
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Austin, TX
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I use a Rotel RB-1050, which gives me 100 watts per channel to a pair of not-bad 4 ohm monitors. The monitors are not great, but I didn't pay a lot. The amp was $400. It's a home theater amp, but if you want sound quality, I think that's the way to go. Extremely clean power, sensitivity is 116db. No hum, damping factor of 500. I use this at home, never done any gigging but I imagine it's not loud enough for some settings. You can, however, find more clean power with significantly more money  I don't have any experience with other amps, but I'll say that this one blew me away compared to the consumer AV receivers I'd used in the past.
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