#1702768 - 02/15/07 02:13 PM
When is it time to break up?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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My band (who, as far as I know, don't read this forum) has been kind of teetering for a long time. We all love playing, and we're all very capable at our relative instruments. But we have terrible scheduling issues with our various real jobs, and also have some ideological differences about the direction of the band, how we should spend our rehearsal time, where we should play and so on.
I had a realization today, when my singer was trying to get a practice going for this Saturday. I found that I was trying to make a legitimate excuse as to why I couldn't go.
That is not a good sign.
Why am I reluctant to spend a Saturday afternoon with my own band? It's pretty simple: I see very little need to go in a play the same set of cover songs we've essentially been doing for over three years. Nothing is going to be gained or lost by playing those tunes for the 1,000th time. I enjoy the guys, I enjoy playing guitar, I enjoy rocking out. All this is fine.
But I think, for whatever reason, I've hit a big burnout stage in this band. Why not just add new tunes to liven things up? My singer is very particular about what material he can sing well (can't blame him for that), and he requires a lot of prep time before we even try a song in rehearsal. Since it's damn near impossible to get our schedules to jibe for us to practice at all, we end up playing the same old tunes.
It might be time to move out of this band. By the way, I did agree to play on Saturday, and I'm sure it will be fine. But I really won't feel like I've accomplished anything afterwards, and to be honest, the time would be better spent on my working on my own originals here in the home studio than doing "You Really Got Me" in my singer's garage.
Any thoughts you'd care to share?
- Jeff
Edited by Jeff Klopmeyer (02/15/07 02:14 PM)
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#1702807 - 02/15/07 03:07 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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jay da cop
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Have you expressed your feeling of being stagnant? I can appreciate the singer not wanting to do stuff outside of his comfort zone, but then again, I can, since he seems afraid to stretch out and grow. If we didn't ever reach out beyond "Mary had a Little Lamb" as early musicians, how far would any of us have gotten?
Talk to the other guys too, maybe they feel the same way, and are afraid to say something. Maybe they just like to play, even if it's the same thing over and over. Maybe they don't want to reach out. Maybe they don't have the time or want to learn new tunes. Maybe the moon really is made of green cheese....OK, I ramble.
Talk to them, all of them, before making a decision. That's my advise.
Jay
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#1702898 - 02/15/07 04:58 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Jay, all good points.
Yes, the drummer and I (who have been friends since high school) certainly feel the same. I can see the same glazed look in the bass player's eyes when that same song we've done thousands of times is called out.
And it's not just a matter of learning new tunes, though that would help keep us fresh, both for ourselves and our audience. It's the way the band presents the material which is the same, regardless of whether we're doing a new song, an old song, a fresh song, a stale song, whatever.
At the same time... who doesn't want to play music? No musician I know, really. One could say that at least hooking up to play is miles better than not playing at all, and I'd agree.
But it's that stagnation... the feeling that we're not going anywhere and not growing in any direction... that is killing the vibe of this band. I'm sure you get the idea. I'm not sure if there's an easy answer, though.
- Jeff
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#1703027 - 02/15/07 08:44 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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David R
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Sounds like you should just boot the singer. The drummer, bassist and you all seem like you're on the same page. Either find a new singer or form a new project with the bassist and drummer.
David
_________________________
MySpace | My Blog "Speak up & be true or shut up & go to bed." Kerouac
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#1703459 - 02/16/07 03:38 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: David R]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Sounds like you should just boot the singer.
Who are you, my drummer? 
Yes, that is one way that's been suggested. However, in many aspects, this is his band. He made the effort to bring us together, he books the gigs, he hosts rehearsals at his place. And he just loves having a top-notch backing band that, from a cynical standpoint, makes us the world's coolest karaoke machine for him. 
Despite that, I wouldn't feel right continuing the same band without him. If this does fade out and I want to get a new project going, it's going to be a different band with me as the frontman, performing my tunes. I've enjoyed my many years of being a cover king, but as I get closer to 40, I find the idea of doing my own songs in front of audiences to have a bit more urgency than when I was 20. 
- Jeff
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#1703564 - 02/16/07 06:29 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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jay da cop
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Jeff, there is no shame in starting a new project without him, especially if it's a different type. Even the guys from Dream Theater have other projects with bandmates. It would also give others an opportunity to get a handle on the business side of our industry. The one possible hassle I see is rehearsal space. If that's covered (to include sound equipment, which we seem to amass over the years), then there is nothing stopping you.
BTW, I get the "40's" thing, I just turned 45. That's why the jam band has been so important and refreshing for me. I haven't been in an original band in nearly 10 years. But, I have my solo project for that (like I or anyone else has free time).
Have fun, and try to be realistic with the others. It could be just as important to them. Oh, GOOD LUCK.
Jay
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#1703943 - 02/17/07 01:32 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Thanks Jay.
The rehearsal is today, and I don't want to derail one of the few times we've gotten together recently by spending the time discussing my thoughts. I'll go in and play, and if the mood seems appropriate afterwards, I may voice a few thoughts in this regard.
As I said earlier: I do love to play, and if the choice is playing music that I'm bored with versus not playing at all, I'll take the boredom.
- Jeff
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#1704224 - 02/18/07 09:39 AM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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jay da cop
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I agree with you on both counts - waiting for after rehearsal, and playing the same old stuff over not playing at all. Just don't let it go too long, or the attitude will prevail, and possibly crush the playing.
Jay
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#1704281 - 02/18/07 12:56 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Well, good news...
I think my singer caught the vibe of the other guys, and did something smart: he had his laptop at the rehearsal, and whenever we called out a song we'd never done before, he'd dutifully Google the lyric and give it a shot. Made a huge difference, and we spent 80% of the practice doing tunes that were new for us as a band.
Hell, we even did a song or two from the 21st century! I think we're making progress!
Anyway, we have another practice set up for two weeks from now, and then we're going to start booking some gigs again.
- Jeff
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#1704551 - 02/19/07 06:53 AM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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jay da cop
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Great news!! Looks like old dogs can learn new tricks - if they are open to it.
Good luck.
Jay
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#1704962 - 02/19/07 07:59 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Trill
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Thats good news Jeff. Nothing worse than feeling stale musically and going thru the motions. Hope you guys can renew the vibe and energy
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#1705909 - 02/21/07 12:33 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Trill]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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It is good, Trill. At least it's a step in a good direction.
Look, I have no aspirations of fame and fortune with this little cover band. We enjoy what we do, and we're good players. We like to gig every so often, not so much for the money but because it's fun getting some audience reaction and momentary adoration.
But that flip side of this scenario is that it's essential that it be fun. If it's not fun and you're not doing it for money, I don't care what it is.... it needs to stop. By adding some new tunes, we had a fun practice, and hopefully that will translate into a fun gig or two.
- Jeff
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#1706318 - 02/22/07 06:28 AM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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jay da cop
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When it all comes down to it it has to be fun. Otherwise, it's just another job, and we all have plenty of those. Few are the people that do what they love in their job. I happen to be one of the fortunate ones. I am in construction (resigned as a police officer) and absolutely love what I do. I am in management now, which is hard, but I still love what I do.
Keep music fun or you won't want to play, no matter how good you and/or the others you play with are. I actually quit playing professionally because it became more of a job, and wasn't fun anymore.
Jay
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#1707059 - 02/23/07 02:23 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Ross Brown
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good luck. Sounds like you may have something worth keeping. It can be tough to make progress sometimes, in my experience. Then the flood gates open and it is hard to figure out what happened. People are the hardest part... in music and life. They also offer the most rewards.
There... my rambling two cents...
_________________________
"When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" – Mrs. Brown
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#1710175 - 03/01/07 12:03 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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RicBassGuy
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When is it time to break up? When she starts insulting my mother. Ain't nobody gonna talk about my mama that way! 
Seriously though, I think you all have to put your musical goals on the table and make yourselves a plan. A business plan.
Right now it sounds like everyone's top goal is to have fun. Ok, that's great, but it's hard to make progress if everyone is just goofing around. So there still has to be some direction.
Sounds like everyone enjoyed trying new songs at the last rehearsal. Great! Everyone had fun. Now, was anything accomplished? Did that activity help the band reach any of its other goals? Well, what exactly are the band's other goals?
Sounds like everyone likes to play out every now and again, but nothing regular. Yeah, it's hard when your first two priorities are family and day job and the band always comes in third. So not having regular gigs is probably a good thing.
I saw an ad for a startup cover band recently. Their plan (well, only one guy so far so his plan) is to have rehearsals once or twice a week until the set list is learned, and then do away with rehearsals entirely. From that point on it would be regular (weekly, I believe) gigs. Does that sound like it would work at all? Would it work for Jeff's singer's band?
Well, one thing such a plan would do is open up more time in everyone's schedule for side projects. What? These guys can barely get together for this band, commitment priority #3. How are they possibly going to be able to add another commitment? And isn't it a "sin" to be in more than one band at the same time?
Even in my area, where it is typically frowned upon to be in more than one band, some of the full-time guys I know are in as many projects as will have them. There are just a few really popular cover bands that gig weekly or more. Everyone else -- cover or original -- is probably only playing out once a month, if even that. I don't think it's because the bands don't know how to promote themselves, or aren't motivated to play out more often. I think it's because a lot of projects are aimed at smaller niches, and it's just harder to draw on a more frequent basis. Even the most popular group will saturate the market by playing seven nights a week and dilute their draw.
Think about the Funk Brothers for a moment. Those cats would tear it up at the local jazz clubs (even though their Motown contracts did not allow it). That would energize their studio sessions with all sorts of new outside influences.
So if Jeff joins a metal band for a side project, the bassist joins a swing band, the drummer joins a hot latin trio, and the singer croons to a country band, when they do meet up every so often for this band's gigs "You Really Got Me" is probably going to be a lot more fun to play. [Maybe less so for cover "purists" that insist on playing note-for-note copies of the studio recordings and don't allow a little freedom of expression, but it should still freshen things up a bit.]
When you consider that music is a language it all makes sense. If the same guys always get together to talk, and never talk to anyone else, the conversations usually go the same tired, predictable way. At some point it may be comfortably familiar, but it does become stagnant and boring eventually.
If you really don't want to get caught "cheating" on your band, though, you have to do those things that married couples do to keep their relationship fresh and exciting. Experience new things together. So maybe at the next rehearsal make it a "movie/tv theme show" practice. Or make it a jazz practice. Do some country tunes, just for the fun of it.
But make sure you're still following your plan.
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#1710191 - 03/01/07 12:25 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: RicBassGuy]
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RicBassGuy
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I'd also like to echo Jay's sentiment that Jeff's singer's cover band might benefit if everyone in it took more ownership (responsibility) in it.
Now it may not be practical, but what if everyone in the band tried to book gigs? Now maybe Jeff is excited about the gig at the end of the month because he booked it at a new place in his neighborhood and he knows a lot of his friends will show.
Maybe the drummer gets pumped because he takes on the task of updating the promo pack and the website. Maybe the bassist goes to a musician's event and actively networks with everyone there and ends up landing the band a gig as an extra in a movie.
Now it's not just the singer's band, it's everybody's band. Rehearsals are more rewarding because there's a tinge of excitement in the air and everyone is working hard to make things successful.
But I'm guessing something like this was tried before and it didn't work too well because it was just too difficult to coordinate everything. Maybe you guys can try a group scheduling calendar; I'm sure there are still free ones on the web. Maybe technology has a solution now that you didn't have before. Maybe it's time to try again?
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#1730010 - 04/06/07 03:56 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: RicBassGuy]
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joeyd4329
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Does anyone here have the same problem as Jeff except with a guitarist who gets to picky about things, but has some serious skill at the same time....
Edited by joeyd4329 (04/06/07 03:56 PM)
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#1730046 - 04/06/07 05:05 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: joeyd4329]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Really good sentiments expressed by everyone. 
The "taking ownership" of the band is definitely a chicken/egg thing. If the other members really felt like it would be worthwhile, I'm sure all of us would be much more aggressive in pursuing gigs. To get them that way, they'd have to feel really good about the band. Since everyone is kind of in a "take it or leave it" place, they don't really bother.
The fact is, we're really great, experienced musicians, and despite the relative lack of regular band practice (or enthusiasm, for that matter), we are a really good band. We're gigging tomorrow night, and I anticipate that it'll be fun, and that we'll play well. However, based on past patterns, I doubt it'll lead to anything beyond that for the time being. I'm focused musically on getting my studio back in shape and working on my solo record... and there's only so much time in the day one can divide between family, job, and music.
In any case, thanks for the responses. You're smart people.
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#1743415 - 04/29/07 03:55 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Eric Iverson
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There is a band I recently had to quit playing with, because they simply can't find the time for all of us to practice, outside of a half-hour before the gig. So it doesn't sound bad, but it could sound a zillion times better, with only a LITTLE regular practice.
No hard feelings; I still play with one of the guitarists and one of the singers in another ensemble.
Another band I'm in is quite talented, and we do practice when we can, but it's always a juggling act. I don't want to quit working with them, but sometimes it's frustrating. Still, there are no other serious projects on the plate....
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#1743630 - 04/30/07 01:55 AM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Eric Iverson]
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jay da cop
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I was just re-reading the whole thread, and something Ric said caught my eye, and could help me out of a slump I'm in right now. He was talking about changing styles for a night as a way to keep things fresh. I think there is a lot of merit in that and will try to incorporate that in my solo project. As you may know I am in Iraq. It turns out that there are a few of us here in my company that are musically inclined (some are SERIOUS players on different instruments), and we have talked about getting together to jam. Now that's exciting. I am really stoked about the idea. We talked about styles, country, rock, blues, R&B and alternative all came up. This could get really interesting, and could open up new territories for me musically. This goes back to teaching old dogs...again, if they are open to it. I am open, to a point. I will be honest. There are some things that I have no interest in playing. Fortunately, there seems to be enough common ground that it will form a foundation, and then we can expand on that. It's a way to find new inspiration, see others in a new light, and fill the few off hours that we get. Here's hopin'...
Jay
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#1757319 - 05/25/07 10:14 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: jay da cop]
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Rit
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It's time to break up the band when...
Your drummer announces he's got to take a break for a while because he's got to spend some time in the "Big House".
Your singer shows up to a gig with a book with all the lyrics in it and a music stand.
Your guitarist keeps turning up louder and louder and louder... oh, that's normal, never mind...
Your singer shows up for a gig zonked on 'ludes, or some such idiocy, and thinks his performance rocked! when it really made you want to run off the stage
Your drummer shows up with his drums, and no traps.
the only gigs you can get are outdoor concerts on town greens, and the audience gets up and walks away when your band plays.
(The above are all true experiences, I could go on, but I'll leave it there... I just couldn't let this topic go...)
But seriously folks,
It's time to break up the band when it isn't fun anymore. If I wanted to lead a monotonous and boring existence, I'd stay at my "real" job and work late. Music is s'posed to be a creative endeavor. Keep it that way, don't let it stagnate, and your band might stay together forever.
_________________________
sic eas ad astra
Confucious say, "Man who lay girl on hill, not on level"
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#1764260 - 06/08/07 01:20 PM
Re: When is it time to break up?
[Re: Rit]
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Picker
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It's time to break up when you are in danger of permanently ceasing to be civil. Everybody has their disagreements, and most of the time folks get over them(or themselves) and go on. But when you find yourself thinking, "Aw God, if I have to listen to this(these)craphead(s) run his/her/it's mouth again, I'm gonna...", it's time to be elsewhere.
_________________________
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, just pee on it and walk away.
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