#1691652 - 10/19/05 10:06 PM
I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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I`m not posting here to start any trouble. I really just want to express an opinion I have and yes we all have them. I`m just wondering if its just me...
I posted this over at Harmony Central because lets face it, mostly everyone moved over there. I will not repeat the post here but here is a link to it. (Again, no trouble wanted. I`m just expressing myself and would like an answer if possible. Thanks.)
EQ Direction
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#1691653 - 10/20/05 09:30 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Well...I read all three pages of posts over there at HC...
...and I could not find any real "answer" to your question…in any of them...
...just a lot of “I-got-one-too” opinions, and of course, the usual amount of fluff posts that you always get at "Grand Central" forums.
Over the last year or so...I've expressed my displeasure with certain aspects and directions of EQ magazine several times...and...I also went to some depths to offer up suggestions and ideas.
Funny...when “mostly everyone” was over here...those some folks that are now kinda' giving you tongue-in-cheek responses to your question...jumped on my ass for stating my opinions about EQ's direction.
I guess some of them feel that since they left the MusicPlayer forums...and are no longer going to be a part generating EQ content...it's easy/ok to chuckle about it all now. :rolleyes:
Anyway...I know what you mean...and I concur.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691654 - 10/20/05 10:01 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Thought it was just me in here. 
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#1691656 - 10/21/05 10:37 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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There is no difference. Actually, I would say that Forum participation is done the last couple of months but I could be wrong. I for one post less and lets be honest, this place is a ghost town.
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#1691658 - 10/21/05 11:15 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Well I agree completely about there being certain people that were tag teaming and yes they all left here together and they have continued to tag team over at HC. However I was never one to get annoyed by that, thats just part of tribal consciousness. It will always happen.
As for EQ, I thought it was getting better until the new editor. And I don`t want to pick on him but the mag has gotten very difficult to read, let alone his monthly column.
I said this a while ago but they lost their original objective. They need to go back to the pre `98 era and look at what made the mag so good. Yes, times have changed but what made EQ so good then is what makes Tape Op so good now.
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#1691659 - 10/21/05 12:24 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Originally posted by Ernest Buckley:
...thats just part of tribal consciousness. It will always happen.
It's just that when you get those "team" responses to threads...the topic is ready for the toilet....IMO.
People respond the way they are expected to...rather then say something original...something from the heart.
That's what I was annoyed about.
It's just started becoming a drag to even bother reading & responding to most threads.
They need to go back to the pre `98 era and look at what made the mag so good. Yes, times have changed but what made EQ so good then is what makes Tape Op so good now.
And I specifically meant "flip through", as opposed to "read"...because I have not been able to read...or I should say, enjoy reading...EQ issues for the last couple of years at least...
…with very few exceptions.
And yes...Tape Op is one of the few that I actually...do read!!!
I mentioned this stuff awhile ago too...and I believe it was Craig Anderton who got kinda' pissy with my comments and my references to Tape Op.
And he wanted me to come up with a detailed list of what EXACTLY should be changed and what is it about Tape Op that makes it more readable...etc...etc...etc.
Well...I'm not the writer or one of the editors. So if they can't figure it out...maybe they shouldn't be either.
I hate the "new" EQ layouts from page to page. All those little info boxes intermixed with the ads...I can't tell what's what!
It has no flow...and no natural eye appeal.
I find myself visually bouncing all over the page trying to follow “something”…that just isn't there.
Also...this awful misuse and abuse of FONTS!!!
Geeeeeez guys!!! Can you chill out with all the different fonts and point sizes!?
Some of the pages look like friggin' alphabet soup spilled all over them.
Maybe the pages have that "amusement park" catchiness to them...but that wears off REAL QUICK when you are trying to actually READ the pages...as opposed to just flipping through them...like I now do.
And, there is a kind of "dryness" to a lot of the articles/reviews...almost as though they were done by non-audio/music people.
There's little there to really draw you in...and hold you through the whole article/review...or issue.
And, on the rare occasion that an article/review shows a little imagination and beyond-surface depth...
...it usually ends rather quickly...and I find myself turning the page over a couple of times wondering where the heck is the rest of the article/review...???
OK...I'll stop for bit before I make too many new friends here. 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691660 - 10/21/05 01:19 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Yes I agree with most of that about the layout and the fonts.
However, many of the writers are quite good. Yes, there are several that should not be writing for an audio mag but overall I find them to be good but yes the articles are not much.
Perhaps the word limit for articles were decreased over the years leading towards what we now have? More ads.
Again, I`m not pointing a finger just at the Editor because he has people telling him what to do so it would be good for the higher ups to actually read some of these posts.
I don`t know the numbers of sales, whether they`re up or down. So maybe they`re selling more mags now?
If thats the case, we need to suck it up and move on.
However it does seem many people are getting tired of the layout changes, the short articles and lets face it; the lousy reviews.
When was the last time you read a reviewer say, "don`t buy this!"?
Thats why I love EM. Steve O the Editor is not afraid to have his reviewers be honest. This honest quality is what makes EM a better magazine. They have also kept their layout pretty much the same since I started reading it which was way back in 1992.
Just MO.
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#1691661 - 10/21/05 01:36 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Back when I was really diggin' EQ...I wasn't a big fan of EM...but, for about a year or so now...I noticed, and commented, that all of a sudden EM started getting better and better!
Maybe they stole some of EQ's kung fu...?
One goes up and the other down.
The thing I don't like sometimes in EM...is that being part of the Mix magazine family...sometimes I'll read Mix...only to find a regurgitation in EM...a month or two later.
I guess they must think that Mix readers and EM readers are completely two different audiences...?
NOT!
And...Larry the O gets a little too philosophical with his back page rants.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691662 - 10/23/05 03:46 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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AudioMaverick
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I've also noticed something lacking in EQ, lately. I first wrote it off to just getting to the point where my knowledge matched what I was doing. I'd pick up the latest issue expecting to pick up something new, but not really finding a topic of interest in it. TO be honset, I haven't read the last EQ, which arrived a week ago. The previous issue had an article in it I read, then lost track of it. Oddly, I strated back using my gear about the same time I stopped being interested in the EQ publications.
I think EQ is going through an identity crisis, personally. They have changed directions a couple times in the last 6 years I've been subscribing. But, something is different this time around.
I just poked in after 3 or 4 weeks of being off the forums. I guess I hit that point where I stopped seing the luster, for a while. Been off doing other things.
_________________________
"It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..."
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#1691663 - 10/25/05 02:29 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Eugene Robinson
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 52
Loc: San Mateo
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ahhhh....I disappear for a few days and something actually sort of interesting happens. well, well, well, to quote Alex from Clockwork Orange: the boys in the band are unhappy with
1) EQ
2) language
3) fonts
4) me
5) and a whole other variety of ill-defined ailments.
Well, welcome to the minority. While I'd like to lend credence to your complaints and I will consider them seriously, maybe more seriously than I should given the time, all of our indicators are up by way of
1) readership
2) subscriptions
3) newstand sales
guys we couldn't get on the phone a year ago are tugging on our coats about getting into the magazine.
we got real working cats doing reviews from all over the world, features on gear by gear greats, and we tell the truth about product versus every single other handjob review you might read somewhere else.
but you senior members have an interesting vantage point and I appreciate it but in this instance it just may happen that your insider standing and the rarefied air of the forum might have dulled your ears to what the rest of us are hearing.
just my 2 cents.
cheers,
Eugene
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#1691664 - 10/25/05 02:51 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Eugene,
Glad you are chiming in!
First off, your post above was easy to read. So thanks for bringing the lingo down to a level I can understand.
Also, if what you say is true than you must ignore the gripes of us old timers. If readership, subscriptions and newstand sales are all up, who cares what we say? You shouldn`t.
We`ll agree to disagree concerning the reviews. EM reviews are far superior than what EQ has been doing for the last 4 years.
As someone wrote above, EQ seems to be going through an identity crisis. This was going on long before you became Editor so do not feel this is an attack on you.
However I would love to read what you have to say, I just can`t understand it. So please, if you could, can you come down to the level of us mere mortals? Or maybe include a second page with translations?
Peace,
Ernest
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#1691665 - 10/25/05 02:57 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Eugene Robinson
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hahah....well I'm writing the editor's letter right now as we speak....it's GENIUS. hahaha....but it'll be in english this time. we're just so used to no one giving a fuck what the editor has to say anyway that I was driven to just take it as far as I could go until someone noticed that i was insane. in much the same way that you'll keep tweaking knobs until you hear it start to suck....but like I said, this next one will be in english....
ciao,
E
ps...on the reviews? yeah, they've changed from 4 years ago....and the causal agent: the web. so while I love sound on sounds in-depth style all indicators (based on web stats) are that no one is reading those all in one shot and well advertisers love that quick hit instant gratification thing
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#1691666 - 10/25/05 03:02 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Eugene,
Thanks for the quick response. I hope you are being as sincere as I am. I have only the best intentions sharing my opinion with you and other readers of EQ. I have read the mag for over 10 years so change is necessary. However it has changed direction a lot in the last 4 years. EQ for the most part gave us plenty of quality but started to change BEFORE you came so do not take any of this personally. Except... I am happy to hear you are re-considering the Editors column (which is the first thing I read in every mag.)
Much Success,
Ernest
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#1691667 - 10/25/05 03:27 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Eugene Robinson
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oh. sincerity is my strong suit. I mean I fake that well. In any case I'm as straight as straight can be whilst sober and am delighted that people actually READ the editor's letter....and so i'll gladly grab the challenge to make it understandable to all and sundry with only infrequent digressions into gross literary excess. my point from the beginning was to get you to notice and now that you have, I am more than happy to entertain/inform/critique.
background: I was recording my band's first record with Albini over at what used to be Coast and someone came in from EQ to do a piece on him thusly interrupting our session. she left a few mags and me, a longtime magazine guy, picked them up. and then threw them down. picked up Mix, and then threw IT down a few seconds later as well. Later picked up TapeOP...didn't throw it down at all. But then again I love fanzines and there's no better fanzine than that one.
But it dawned on me that with the ascendancy in the web, the changing market and the failure of almost all the magazines to do anything other than carry the jock of the MI community, oh, I mean advertisers, that there was no way the magazines could address it's READERS in an honest way and hence a magazine that gets thrown down.
because in the best of cases the magazine is a real medium and simple, like any good impresario, makes it possible for the community to enjoy itself.
and so: we don't all need to be pro writers to get into EQ, we don't all have to have 40 years under our belts to participate, and we don't have to be grizzled and hateful guys mewling about "kids these days don't know nothing" for the party to be a cool one that'll benefit all involved.
and that's what would make a magazine a cool party to be at.
yup.
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#1691668 - 10/25/05 03:31 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
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Amen.
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#1691669 - 10/25/05 03:51 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Originally posted by Eugene Robinson:
But it dawned on me that with the ascendancy in the web, the changing market and the failure of almost all the magazines to do anything other than carry the jock of the MI community, oh, I mean advertisers, that there was no way the magazines could address it's READERS in an honest way and hence a magazine that gets thrown down.
because in the best of cases the magazine is a real medium and simple, like any good impresario, makes it possible for the community to enjoy itself.
and so: we don't all need to be pro writers to get into EQ, we don't all have to have 40 years under our belts to participate, and we don't have to be grizzled and hateful guys mewling about "kids these days don't know nothing" for the party to be a cool one that'll benefit all involved.
and that's what would make a magazine a cool party to be at.
That EQ in it's present day form...is as good as it gets...?
That the web permits magazines to NOT be deep...not seek honesty...?
That because most of the "kids" out there don't have 40 years experience, or even think that it's all that important...
...the magazines can throttle down too...?
That if the subscriptions/sales are up...that is all the validation that is needed to hold the course...?
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691670 - 10/25/05 04:02 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Originally posted by Eugene Robinson:
you senior members have an interesting vantage point and I appreciate it but in this instance it just may happen that your insider standing and the rarefied air of the forum might have dulled your ears to what the rest of us are hearing.
I noticed some negative letters in a recent issue...and the target of one of the letters was an EQ writer, who in turn responded by calling the letter-writer an ass.
I remember reading the letter....and I found nothing wrong with it....at least not enough to where the EQ writer should call the person an ass…just because he gave a legitimate (albeit negative) opinion about an article.
So...I wonder if you guys my have closed your ears....and are only hearing what you want to hear...?
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691671 - 10/25/05 05:00 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Eugene Robinson
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hahaha....well there seems to be the silent majority that vote in a way that increases readership and subscriptions...or the ones that send in emails that we're too friggin' modest to print...or the producers who wouldn't talk to us before but dig what we do enough that now they do, but I don't think that's really what you wanna talk about, is it? I mean i read EVERYTHING on every forum everywhere about EQ and the lingering and main gripe coming from across the generational divide is that they're bemoaning what they see as our decline in civility.
simply put having one person call another person an ass is an unforgivable sin I guess for people who have not worked with bands in the last 20 years perhaps.
for those who have they're appreciating that the magazine seems to be reflecting accurately their real work environments and seem to do a good job of capturing a true life snapshot.
you spend a lot of time on the web? well then you might agree with me...you may not LIKE it but our common discourse has changed and you can see it in everything from TIME magazine to yeah, EQ.
So, you wonder if we may have closed our ears? Well only in the sense that we're not trying to be everything to everybody anymore. well then for who? for what? well, I guess all the producers and engineers that we know are the ones we're listening to and in this sense it's incredibly democratic: we'll listen to just about anyone who is doing more than complaining about our use of words like ASS.
and remarkably I'm not hearing a lot of complaints about CONTENT in all of this. I mean yeah, we'd all like the reviews to be longer, but this is a function of an ad/edit ratio that all mags have to contend with...so if it's FORM, well, you know....sometimes the music rocks and sometimes it doesn't and no matter how many times I listen to Pat Boone, I've just started to embrace the fact that I'm probably NEVER going to really LIKE it.
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#1691672 - 10/25/05 07:33 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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First off...I think you misinterpreted my point about the "ass" comment.
I have NO problems with the language.
The point I was making is that I got the impression that because someone was NOT praising you guys...he got called an ass.
Basically...IMO...it came off like your writer in question called the guy an ass because he didn’t like the negative comment about his article.
Believe me...if the guy deserved to be called an ass...I would have cheered your writer for doing it!!!
Now…my general complaint…IS about the CONTENT…or lack of it.
Sure, you roll out a couple of issues every year that are somewhat rich...but the majority of late have been rather thin...creatively and...literally!
Damn...some of the issues have gotten almost as thin as the supermarket coupon pull-out from the Sunday papers. The only thing holding the “content” together…are the ads.
You say that there is a silent majority that supports your current direction.
Can you clarify....what is it that they all...silently...tell you...???
Better still...I am curious as to what you guys...the editors, writers and owners…believe is the primary purpose of a trade magazine such as EQ?
Is it for entertainment?
Is it for education?
Or is it mostly for "infomercials"?
Sure...all of those elements can...and should be...a part of a good trade magazine.
But...there needs to be a core purpose...a core theme...
...the main "vibe" that drives everything else.
You can claim that EQ is only doing what its...silent...majority wants.
But I just can't find that theme...that vibe…that once was quite noticeable in EQ.
Also, if the...silent...majority is made up of people who are rather...ahhh..."green"...
...well then, I would think that a magazine like EQ would/should set the standard, rather than interpret it from the “silent green” (wasn’t that a movie…?…oh yeah…”Soylent Green). 
No one is suggesting that you become "grizzled and hateful guys mewling about "kids these days don't know nothing"...".
But rather than be driven by those "kids"...instead, why not YOU steer THEM in the right directions.
A teacher in a 5th grade classroom is NOT going to let the kids set the tone.
Many, many years ago...when I was one of those kids...I spent a lot of time digging for the secrets of the pros...learning the techno-babble...and honing my skills...
through hands-on experience...
...but also, by reading the trade magazines.
I still have most of the EQ issues...starting with #1.
And back then...EQ was like a breath of fresh air.
I read and re-read each issue a few times...squeezing out everything I could find in-between the lines.
Granted...these days I am not seeking the same quantity or type of information as I was in my younger days...
...but damn, I think I should be able to find…some…content in EVERY issue, that will keep me from just flipping through and then throwing it down!
With the current "infomercial" trend of EQ (and some other rags)...there really isn't enough depth there to keep even a novice interested for too long.
So...I really wonder who IS this...silent...majority? I sure wish “they” would voice their feelings here…in these EQ forums. Wasn’t that going to be the main thrust of the “new” MusicPlayer forums…?
OK…I’m running on only about 3 hours of sleep from last night…and I’m starting to ramble, so I’ll quit here for tonight.
Also, my intent is not to argue…or even debate…
…but only to speak my mind, since I am NOT part of any…silent…majority or minority.
I want to enjoy EQ again as much as I use to.
I want to feel like there is always…some…content that IS speaking directly to me…
…and not like I am just flipping through a generic magazine while sitting in my doctor’s waiting room…
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691674 - 10/26/05 02:34 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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robmix
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Registered: 05/22/01
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I'm sorry, Eugene your responses here have convinced me that EQ under your leadership may actually be in trouble. I too noticed the "ass" response in the letters section and I'm not here to complain about that, no matter how unprofessional it is. We're talking about the dwindling content in recent years. As a professional who is in touch with many other industry pro's, I can tell you I'm not alone. EQ used to be the cool alternative to Mix, now most of the pro's I know consider it a quick bathroom read after they've skimmed through back issues of Wired. You have to realize that we're all behind you and the other writers, we truly want EQ to be great. But as of late it's the EQ staff that's living in a bubble.
Good luck.
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#1691675 - 10/26/05 04:59 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Geoff Grace
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A few months ago, a similar dissatisfaction was voiced about Keyboard magazine by forum members in The Keyboard Corner. For the most part, I was impressed by the responses from Craig Anderton, Ernie Rideout, and Ken Hughes. They found a great balance between explaining why Keyboard magazine's content was what it was and listening to and incorporating forum member suggestions! 
Best,
Geoff
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#1691676 - 10/26/05 08:43 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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miroslav
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Originally posted by Ernest Buckley:
Eugene came aboard recently so I don`t think its fair to throw any blame at him. An Editor needs some time to evaluate the readers (their wants and needs) and only then do I believe can he reasonably start to steer his publication in that direction.
...but rather to point out what has been an ongoing concern for at least a couple of years now.
But then, when the Editor (who ever it may be, at any given point in time) responds with things like…
"all of our indicators are up"
...or...
"you senior members have an interesting vantage point and I appreciate it but in this instance it just may happen that your insider standing and the rarefied air of the forum might have dulled your ears to what the rest of us are hearing."
...I have to wonder who's perspective is really skewed?
Basically…we are being told that we are wrong.
And that…coming from someone who’s just gotten on board as Editor…is a bit disconcerting.
I mean what musician/editor would want more ads than articles?
I have NO PROBLEM with ads...or with a large quantity of ads.
My problem is with the dwindling content that is found in-between that gobs and gobs of ads.
And…what little content there is…it has been reduced to infomercial quality in most issues.
You wanna' fatten up a really great, content rich publication with lots of ads...fine.
But when the ads become the bulk of your content...... 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1691677 - 10/26/05 09:22 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Ernest Buckley
Senior Member
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 463
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
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Miroslav,
Sorry I wasn`t saying you were pointing a finger or anyone else. I just don`t want this to look like or sound like we are blaming Eugene. I don`t know if the writers for EQ are living in a bubble, I do not have access to their numbers. Thats why I said above, if its true that all their indicators are up, they should just ignore my complaints.
BTW- I completely agree with Robmix. I know many professionals in the industry who feel EQ has become a bathroom read.
Its a shame because at one time it was a publication you held on to. Now I (try to) read the each issue which hasn`t happened in some time and then I throw it in the recycling bin after it has sat on the tank of my toilet seat for a week and no I`m not making a cheap joke here, its true.
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#1691678 - 10/26/05 10:38 AM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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Brittanylips
Platinum Member
Registered: 12/15/01
Posts: 1227
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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Eugene – have you ever watched the West Wing? There’s a scene I remember in which a young CJ Craig (she is working as a PR rep prior to coming to the White House) is defending herself against a Hollywood mogul who has dropped down a published list of “most powerful in Hollywood.” He’s dropped from something like 3rd to 9th most powerful person in Hollywood and is pissed. The mogul harangues CJ for her failures as a PR rep for overseeing his slip. It’s her job to see that he stays high on the list. She responds (more or less) “the reason you slipped is not because of me, but because your movies were bad. They were just bad. It’s like New Coke. The reason it failed was not because of the advertising, but because it was just bad. Make better movies, and we can move you up the list.”
I think you are RIGHT about developing a more honest, youthful, and spicy magazine, and one that breaks out of the stale formula for reviews: “This is pretty good; I would change this one thing; anyone considering this kind of thing should take a look at this one.” Ugh. Refreshing the language, the style, the fonts, the everything – all that is good.
But Joel’s review was just BAD! His opinions and style were fine. But the writing was just bad. The style could be every bit as “real” without every paragraph sounding like a fourteen year old geek giving a last-minute English report, shifting from one foot to the next, repeating the same thought in almost the same language paragraph after paragraph. My problem with it wasn’t his point of view, his style, his honesty, but that it was JUST BAD. If he posted it on an internet forum, it would still be bad. The writing on audio forums from kids to geezers is better than what he turned in. It was just bad. (No offense to Joel).
Same with your editorial. IMHO, it wasn’t too insane, too street, too personal, too whatever. It was just bad. Be everything you want to be, have every bit of street juice spill into a new and better magazine, have every bit of insanity ooze out of your head and onto the pages, but why not make it good? You know, like reread um, what you write with a critical eye and with you know, like a modicum of intensity and, um, a trice of humility and, you know, like, could you say it any better, you know, like editor type stuff.
Or the magazine will die like an old pizza pie.
My .02.
Actually, more like .01. Feel free to disregard, especially if what you're doing is working, and what I'm doing is procrastinating....
-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips
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#1691679 - 10/26/05 01:16 PM
Re: I`m not asking for trouble...
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robmix
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 1187
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Brittanylips New Coke analogy is great. I understand the need for change, but as Coca Cola found out, alienating your base in the process is a disaster.
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