#1691369 - 01/06/06 05:58 PM
BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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frankcanino
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Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 2
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I am so pissed at BP for running this 3 page "Rex Hull" advertisement. How much did they pay you? I have always respected the standards set by your editorial staff as regards to the many ways one can attain a satisfying relationship with the bass. Whether it be describing the most serious of human effort (a la AJ) or mere whimsical entertainment, BP has provided an indispensible forum for me, and has made me feel connected to so many people whose paths in life have given ilumination and validation to my own. The heartless bullshit espoused in these 3 pages is pure blasphemy and to give any creedence at any price to OHP Music is by far the worst mistake BP has made in it's 16 years of publication. How to "humiliate" other musicians, "become the center of the universe" hardly begin to address the ugly picture of the musical life painted in this ad. All your readers deserve a serious apology and an editorial addressing the outright lies told and the inhumane values held by OHP Music.
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#1691370 - 01/07/06 10:28 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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dhomer
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Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Kalamazoo, MI
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I will refrain from swearing... however I am basically in agreement with Frank. A three page ad is VERY expensive, btw... Opened up my new BP and I had to do a double-take.. Had to make sure I wasn't reading "Income Opportunities". That advertisement is very similar in style and substance to those shameless "get-rich-quick" scams you would find in such publications. The claims made in that advertsement rank right up there with the Accu-Switch. Folks, for $104 you're buying a pipe dream. The only ones hoping to get anything out of this is OHP Music. I would be shocked to hear someone who actually bought into this and report the claims were actually true.
I've been playing bass for decades now, and granted I'm no chops monster.. I'm sorry, there is no magic spell that can transform anyone from jerk to Jaco overnight.. Buyer beware... if it sounds too good to be true..it is....
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#1691371 - 01/07/06 11:27 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Rob Rimmington
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Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Boca Raton Florida
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I notice that Guitar Player has run the guitar version of this add for quite some time so I guess somebody must be buying into this foolishness. I wasn't suprised as guitar players can be very competitive. But in a Bass publication this is just unacceptable. What's next Bass Player, penis enlargement adds?
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#1691372 - 01/07/06 12:15 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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bottle12am
Senior Member
Registered: 06/28/04
Posts: 364
Loc: Cajun Country, LA
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Man--
Hate to say what caught my eye to this thread was the profanity in the headline. I haven't read BP mag in a while (Wife was sweet nuff to finally get me another subscription for Christmas, so one should be in the mail shortly), so I wasn't sure what the fuss was about.
SO
I went to the Rex Hull website. If the print ad was anything like the website, I will say that what's going on is pretty sad. Other than my current mag drought, I had been a BP reader since back in the day (Technically, the second issue of BP, when it was quarterly and Will Lee was on the cover). While some ads were head-scratchers, none I can remember have ever been this shamelessly National-Enquirishly cheesy.
I just hope the deal for this ad was done up in Nevade, b/c accepting money from these guys comes really close to the definition for prostitution.
While I look forward to 'getting back on track' with my subscription, I must say I am very disappointed.
_________________________
"Women and rhythm section first" -- JFP
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#1691373 - 01/07/06 04:24 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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_Sweet Willie_
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 7985
Loc: New Jersey
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Frank, I understand your disappointment and completely agree that this ad looks like a pile of junk. However, the forums here try to be somewhat "family friendly", so if you get a moment to edit the profanity out of the title of this thread before a moderator does, it would be much appreciated.
BP editors: Can you help us understand how you make decisions about ad copy? In the past you've discussed what you have control over and what you don't, and I don't know what kind of business practices or guidelines that might constrain your decision making. However, this ad does seem a bit over the top and full of crap.
Any comments would be welcomed by this subscriber.
Thanks, y'all.
Peace.
--SW
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#1691374 - 01/07/06 05:07 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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jcadmus
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Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: Connecticut
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Wow, I must have had my BS filter on, cuz I slid right past the ad without slowing down while reading the January edition.
I had to go back and flip through the mag to find out what you guys were talking about. That's probably not a good sign for the guy who paid dearly for that ad.
This stuff is always caveat emptor in my opinion -- personally I put it in the same category as, as one editor I know once put it, miracle cures for baldness and one-week diet plans.
_________________________
"Just bring your Jazz Bass and try to sound like Will Lee" -- Chris Bishop
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#1691375 - 01/08/06 03:31 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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ATM
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 2186
Loc: SW Florida (originally from No...
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Originally posted by Rob Rimmington:
What's next Bass Player, penis enlargement adds?
Anyway, love the highlighting. Also love the picture of said "bassist" standing, holding electric bass guitar, "playing" and no strap. How long you think he'd be able to do that? Must be one of those "genuine shortcuts." By the way, what note would anyone guess he's playing? Or maybe that's a guitar chord, I'm not sure.
Does OHP Music stand for: Dr. O'Leary, Rex Hull, and Simon Putz?
For anyone not wanting to browse the ad, stear clear of pages 21-23.
ATM
_________________________
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#1691376 - 01/09/06 08:14 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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jcadmus
Platinum Member
Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: Connecticut
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It does raise some interesting issues about standards for advertising at BP though.
Understanding of course that all advertising has a bit of schmaltz to it, I'm sure the magazine wouldn't knowingly publish a fraudulent ad.
But I wonder what their guidelines are and how they are applied. What will or won't they accept, both in terms of the ad content (like, I'm guessing pictures of naked people are out) as well as the substance of the claim? How closely do they actually check the claims being made?
Anyone at BP care to comment?
_________________________
"Just bring your Jazz Bass and try to sound like Will Lee" -- Chris Bishop
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#1691377 - 01/09/06 01:16 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Bill Leigh
Senior Member
Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 35
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Hi everyone,
The fact that you are weighing in this matter speaks volumes about how important Bass Player is to you and your concern for its continued value and integrity. For that, I can’t thank you enough.
As for the question of how much we editors are involved in advertising content, the answer is none. That “church and state separation” is by design, and it goes both ways: the advertising sales staff has nothing to do with what we choose to write about their clients’ products, for example. While I did see a 3-page ad on our issue “map,” I saw the actual ad for the first time when I got my copy of the January issue.
We editors do speak to and share information with our sales colleagues, and collaborate with them to make sure the magazine is represented in a unified way, but we are all sticklers about keeping the editorial and advertising processes separate in order to preserve the integrity and quality of the editorial product. In other words, it's as important to the sales people as it is to the editors that the readers trust Bass Player.
Does the ad in question undermine that trust? I don’t know, and because of our clear “church-and-state” separation lines--which many magazines blur considerably--it would be inappropriate for me to comment on any advertisement in a public forum. However, that question has been the subject of some internal discussion, and your feelings on the matter are extremely valuable. Ultimately, it’s you who can best answer that question, and we who are charged with taking your feelings to heart.
Again, I truly appreciate your opinions on this. If you want to write me e-mails or letters on the topic, I will certainly consider publishing excerpts on our letters page.
Thanks for helping us make BP the best it can be.
Bill
_________________________
Bill Leigh, Editor in Chief
BASS PLAYER
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#1691378 - 01/09/06 01:18 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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fingertalkin
Gold Member
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 587
Loc: Dumfries VA
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I hate to jump the otherside of the fence, because I am in agreement with the rest of the guys, but BP has bills to pay and it keeps are subscrition fees down. I've only been playing for 4 months and even I know that this is bogus. I just read some of the threads on the lowdown and realize that it is going to take some time to learn all (some, more realistically) of the stuff it takes to be a good bassist.
It is just an ad, not an endorsement
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#1691379 - 01/09/06 05:08 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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jcadmus
Platinum Member
Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: Connecticut
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Thank you, Bill, for responding to our questions.
Understanding the "separation of church and state thing," would it possible for you to ask BP's advertising director to explain the magazine's advertising policy to us?
Again, thanks.
_________________________
"Just bring your Jazz Bass and try to sound like Will Lee" -- Chris Bishop
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#1691380 - 01/10/06 10:07 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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wraub
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 4181
Loc: where it's hot and people are ...
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Thanks a lot Bill for your response on this.
While I feel the ad was insanely hyperbolic, I think that a lot of BP's readers are smart enough to see that as well. I truly hope so, anyway.
I scanned and mentally displaced the thing pretty quickly.
As to the trust issue... I have been a reader of BP since the beginning, and of GP before that and since. I put this on the level of the "perfect-pitch" ads - Somewhere between novelty and nuisance, and in my court to judge.
I also understand that BP has bills to pay, and on whichever side of the "church-and-state" fence editorial falls, in publishing, advertising can sometimes be an uncomfortable neighbor.
Looking forward to the next issue, (and my eventual subscription),
peace,
wraub
_________________________
America is a nation of inertia and nostalgia, as are most nations. This does not bode well for the future. Omne Ignotum Pro Magnifico. http://www.myspace.com/wraubmusic
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#1691381 - 01/12/06 10:40 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Aldena
Senior Member
Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 208
Loc: So Cal.
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I missed the ad too, and took a gander last night. So, what could be on these Rex Hull DVD's?
Sure, the ad itself is quite cheesy, but is there anything an intermediate player like me could learn from these? There's a 100% money back guarantee. Or the fact that there's only 177 for sale mean I will be ripped off?
I'm very curious as to what could possibly make me a superstar overnight.
I think a discussion on the LDLD is in order, but I don't know how to post a link to this thread.
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#1691382 - 01/12/06 02:02 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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frankcanino
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Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 2
Loc: The Road
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Bass Player magazine does mean a lot to me. I am 50 years old, have been reading it from the first issue, and I am a bassist who plays constantly. I have been employed playing Broadway shows and tours for over 11 years with hardly a night off. I have been without a job for a total of 1 month since 1994. Music is precious to me, as it is to almost every musican I know who has stuck with it as long as I. You know who it isn't precious to? The people to whom it came easily to. The ones who possess a certain gift to just sound good on almost any instrument they play. It comes as easily to this select few as walking does to (most) of the rest of us. So they take it for granted, and look for other things to fulfill their lives. This what would probably happen to a bassist if all that Rex Hull promised became true. Almost every musician I know, especially the veterans, have worked earnestly for their entire lives to be able to offer something special and personal to the world. As a bassist, this often involves a special kind of support. An act of giving, aiming to inspire. I wonder if an ad promising to provide these skills would get peoples' money. I am really interested to see Rex Hull's DVD's but considering all the other lies I don't really believe I would get my money back if I didn't become the center of the universe overnight. Well, I hope I don't see this same ad next time I open your magazine. If I do, maybe there'll also be a 3 page article (with no ads on the pages) about a good bassist. I haven't seen that in a long time. If I remember correctly, one of my favorite bassists, Alan Gorrie, had more space devoted to his photo than to his story. Oy.
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#1691383 - 01/16/06 10:32 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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jcadmus
Platinum Member
Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 1147
Loc: Connecticut
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So...I guess no one is going to explain Bassplayer's advertising guidelines here...
_________________________
"Just bring your Jazz Bass and try to sound like Will Lee" -- Chris Bishop
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#1691384 - 01/19/06 12:25 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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dhomer
Senior Member
Registered: 08/15/05
Posts: 194
Loc: Kalamazoo, MI
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Just got my February issue.... methinks a decision's been made..... that ad is nowhere in sight.. in fact ol' "Perfect Pitch" ain't nowhere to be seen, either....hmmmmmmm.... now to sit down to some good readin'...
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#1691385 - 01/26/06 08:13 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Eric Iverson
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 2441
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
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These are tricky issues... how can BP or any other musical thoroughly check out everything?
Of course, if something it blatant fraud, then you gotta axe it!
The old saying still applies "let the buyer beware!"
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#1691386 - 09/03/06 04:58 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Picker
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 7116
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I remember, way back in the day, seeing ads in my favorite comic books. Ads were in them for everything from X-Ray Specs to Charles Atlas muscle building ads to Sea Monkeys to you-name-it.
As I got a little older, I heard from around the way that Charles Atlas was a fake, that X-Ray Specs didn't work, that Sea Monkeys didn't swim when you drop them in water, so on and so forth, the way kids aways do eventually. I didn't quit reading my favorite comic books because their advertisers were rip-off artists, maybe because I never had enough money to send away for that stuff and be ripped off by the spurious ads of those companies, so I just ignored them, and kept reading about Spider-Man, which was why I bought the comic in the first place.
Let's face it folks, magazines are just comic books for grown-ups. I don't pay much attention to the ads unless I see either something I want, or something that offends me. Yes, I was offended by some ads for booze that I saw in GP sometime back, and said so. I got an education from Mike Molenda in just how little the title "editor-in-chief" means when it comes to the advertizing copy of a magazine, just as you are now from Bill Leigh. Welcome to the real world.
We have registered out collective distaste for the Rex Hull ad. Maybe later we'll say it again, if needs be. Or maybe we could write a letter to the mag with a warning that, having tried Hull's product and finding out that it is about as real as X-ray Specs, we would steer clear of it. I believe the editor-in-chief would have say-so over whether or not that was published. Maybe if he didn't publish it, we would have a reason to chew Bill Leigh out.
But, in the meantime, let's allow Hull to spend a lotta bux and keep BP in circulation, pretend the ads are for Sea Monkeys or something, and just ignore them. In the meantime, word-of-mouth can get out about his stuff the way it did about X-ray Specs. Maybe if he keeps spends money on 3 page ads without getting any return, he'll go out of business.
_________________________
ROCK GUITARIST ABDUCTED BY ALIENS AND RETURNED TO EARTH!
Anal probe wouldn't fit past his head!
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#1691388 - 09/05/06 07:38 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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Obi-Wan
Senior Member
Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 34
Loc: Atlanta
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I know this is far out there, but maybe Ed can buy the "Learning material" and review it as the bunk it probably is in the magazine.
There shouldn't be any reason against doing that. And maybe a fair accurate review of perfect pitch guy's ad's I have been seeing for the last 18 years while we are at it.
My guess is this review probably wouldn't be more than a paragraph long, but hey who knows. It wouldn't be the first time BP had a review of an advertisers product.
Of course I am assuming that Rex HUll's stuff is even still available and his company hasn't declared bankruptcy yet.
_________________________
"Obi-Wan was the last and greatest of the Jedi Knights."
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#1691389 - 09/05/06 04:18 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
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MicheleC
Senior Member
Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 105
Loc: Milano
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I have to disagree folks. I just switched over from pan flute and did not know how to deal with a bass guitar, then tuesday I listened to the tape (ehm DVD) and today I have a deal with Tony Levin for his next CD.
_________________________
-- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net)
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#1715454 - 03/10/07 06:11 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
[Re: MicheleC]
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eadg4
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Registered: 03/10/07
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ok, mr. hull is in the march issue, along with 'perfect pitch'. neither of these are marked as "advertisements". while i completely agree with bill's comments regarding the 'church/state' separation of editor & advertising, IF bp is running them, & IF they are bogus, they need to tell us so or stop running the ads. again, if this is the case, there is no excuse for passing the 'separation of editor & advertising' buck back & forth between departments. bp, many readers, especially young ones, look to you for guidance & advise--please do the right thing.
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#1718723 - 03/17/07 03:30 AM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
[Re: frankcanino]
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totallyfrozen
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Registered: 03/15/07
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I dunno...
"Super-Respected Guitar Wizard (Who's Done Solos With Everyone From Yngwie Malmsteen To Grammy Award Winning Artists) Finally Reveals The REAL Secret To Making Serious Money As A Pro!"
...sounds pretty good to me! (ROFLMAO!)
I can't imagine why a "Super-Respected Guitar Wizard (Who's Done Solos With Everyone From Yngwie Malmsteen To Grammy Award Winning Artists) would NOT include his name in this ad! Huh...(shrug)...Strange.
This may not be the ad from BP but it's the one on Dr. O'Leary's site. Wonder what he's a doctor of anyway...hmmmm...
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#1723037 - 03/25/07 04:37 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
[Re: Rob Rimmington]
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MicheleC
Senior Member
Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 105
Loc: Milano
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What's next Bass Player, penis enlargement adds?
Hmmm. Let's see... Straps? Who needs straps? Hold an Alembic for hours with our revolutionary product ...
_________________________
-- Michele Costabile (http://proxybar.net)
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#1724930 - 03/28/07 04:45 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
[Re: MicheleC]
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 10001
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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What's next Bass Player, penis enlargement adds? Hmmm. Let's see... Straps? Who needs straps? Hold an Alembic for hours with our revolutionary product ...
Perhaps the two are intertwined? Penis enlargement = ability to.... well, you get the idea. 
_________________________
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#1742758 - 04/27/07 11:45 PM
Re: BULL**** ADVERTISEMENT
[Re: Griffinator]
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Frank M
Platinum Member
Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 1735
Loc: Benton City, WA
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Would it be a conflict of editorial interests to "review" a product that is featured in an ad that has ad space bought for it? The onus shouldn't be on Bill and the boys in the lab. If this product (or any other short of that ghastly looking neck sock thingie) is the do all, end all, be all, let's see if Mr. Hull would oblige the staff of BPM by sending a free sample of his system to the boys in the lab and let them have at it. What better advertising than to have the BPM staff say, "Hey, this really works!".
... unless you've been reading the DaVinci Code or watching the US Senate at work and think the staff was simply part of a larger conspiracy...BWAH-HA-HA-HA!
_________________________
Respectfully, Frank M They have to keep me. I own the domain name. The Columbia Jazz Trio
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