#1687912 - 07/29/05 01:17 PM
Friends or Business Partners?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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This can be a tough issue as it relates to bands.
When musicians are young, it's likely that their early bands are made up of friends... buddies who happen to play an instrument, or take up an instrument specifically to get into a band.
As time goes by, a band can become more of a working relationship. You hire new members who you don't know extremely well, or join new bands where you're basically a stanger to the folks already in the band. Sometimes in these situations, bandmates do become friends as time progresses; other times, you'll have people who don't socialize at all outside of gigs and rehearsals.
Do you consider all of your bandmates friends? If so, what happens when you have a dispute among your bandmates? Is it harder or easier to work with bandmates who are less emotionally attached?
- Jeff
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#1687913 - 07/29/05 02:35 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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RABid
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My first bands were made up of friends. There were maybe 12 to 15 of us in my small home town that played instruments and formed bands. The problem that hit me was when the best, most successful combination formed and my best friend was not included. The more popular we became the less he spoke to me. He had dreams of being a rock star. The more that dream faded the more he put us down. So I guess the problem for me was not the friends in the band, but the one that was left out.
But a more direct answer to the question, it depends on how serious I am about the band. For a relaxing band that plays twice a month I prefer friends. When I did my time as a professional who played music to pay the bills, I joined the best working band available and that always seemed to be a band of strangers.
Robert
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All I need is one more keyboard.
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#1687914 - 07/29/05 04:27 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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EddiePlaysBass
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My first ever band (the one in which I picked up a bass) was with friends. And to be honest, I didn't like it.
Then I joined an existing band, and those people became really close friends. The band broke up, and I found myself still hanging out with the former members, but feeling somewhat obligated to do so.
The people I currently play with, I consider to be friends (but then again, my girlfriend says I'm a sociopath, because I consider everyone a friend  ) but I keep it at a certain level.
Of course, our lead singer is my father, so that's different But I want to be less emotionally involved with the people.
And Rabid, I know how that goes, with the best friends thing. One of my friends was like that for a long time. Learnt to play the guitar about the same time I started playing bass (I taught him his first chords) and wanted to form a band with me.
But I progressed more rapidly on bass than he did on guitar, so I started joining bands and such, and he seemed to really dislike that. At some point I even cancelled an audition because I didn't feel comfortable telling my best friend about it ...
THAT is when it hit me that it's my life to lead, not his. Okay, so it cost me an audition to come to that realization, but that was a small price to pay, in the end. He learnt to deal with it, and we're now talking of doing a punkrock thing in the near future.
_________________________
"... and I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend ..." (Dream Theater - Space Dye Vest) My band - The Dapper Dans
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#1687915 - 07/29/05 07:06 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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MidLifeCrisis
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To me, the ultimate goal of playing music is to enjoy myself. Money is secondary. It is not worth the hassle to me to play in a band where I do not enjoy it.
With that being said, I have not enjoyed the times where I joined an existing band which was merely a group of business associates formed together to do a job. Practices are boring and full of tension. Gig selection becomes purely based on $$ with no regard to distance, time, crowd or atmosphere.
I love the camaraderie when you play with friends. Not every practice is going to be fun. So its great to be able to just relax on those off nights and tell jokes or just jam around. With friends you can pick and chose the gigs you feel are appropriate. Practicing and playing with your band should be the equivalent of boys night out.
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#1687916 - 07/30/05 10:43 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Lee Flier
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Yeah I agree with MidLife. It's "easier" in many ways to work with people you're not emotionally attached to, but the "easiest" route is rarely the most rewarding.
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#1687917 - 07/30/05 11:27 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Great observations.
My band of the past several years has been a hybrid situation. The drummer who asked me to join this group is a guy I've been making music with since 1987. He was a groomsman at my wedding; he's probably my closest pal.
Contrasting that relationship, I'd never met the singer and bass player before joining this band, and although we get along well, we don't hang out beyond our gigs or practices. They're nice guys, but the aspect of having to be a little more polite with them (rather than just being totally open the way one is with true friends) sometimes stifles the band dynamic.
- Jeff
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#1687918 - 07/31/05 09:35 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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forceman
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I keep things strictly business.
Friendly--certainly!
Friends--no way.
Why? If you are serious about your music you will be moving on to different situations and with different musicians.
Is this fair? certainly.
Am I am jerk--perhaps, in some peoples eyes...
Do I care? no.
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#1687919 - 08/01/05 05:55 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Picker
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I made mostly original music for 20+ years with two other guys and a few folks came and went. One of the two was a long time friend before the band, the other became a long time friend, the rest were guys who came and went. There were compromises made in the music for all of us, but we still some great music here and there. It usually paid for itself with a little to spare, but it was never financially rewarding to any great degree. Then again, it was never really intended to make money, primarily; it was a ministry and was quite successful on that level. In a lot of ways, I and my music grew up with those guys, and after teh first ten years of playing together, we were tight. It was a rewarding experience to play with those guys, and I am greateful to God for it.
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ROCK GUITARIST ABDUCTED BY ALIENS AND RETURNED TO EARTH!
Anal probe wouldn't fit past his head!
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#1687920 - 08/01/05 10:40 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Lee Flier
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Originally posted by forceman:
Why? If you are serious about your music you will be moving on to different situations and with different musicians.
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#1687921 - 08/01/05 09:45 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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DC
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I was always in traveling bands and you know what they say; 'If you really want to know someone, drive across the country with them.' There are some people I ended up working with just because they were compitant musicians and could take off for three months or whatever. Really really got old sometimes.
Friends, well yeah, we had to get along and we'd all take off and do stuff on our days off.
The absolute best gigs we had as far as being professional and doing good shows we had four rooms (four piece band).
My biggest mistake (as far as band leader) was confiding too much about the band business. It really backfired on me in the end and bit me in the ass, even though through my ideas and inovation (and building most of the gear to speck through research ON MY OWN by and large) they all ganged up on me so I quit a sucessful for years and years band and moved to England for a spell.
You gotta just say; "f*ck you" to snivelling bast#rds in the end if they start biting your heals.
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#1687922 - 08/01/05 10:54 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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eric
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I'm a big fan of being pals with my band mates and fortunately that is how it has worked out in most all of the bands with which I've played. There is sort of a logical progression from casual acquaintance to being friends to being like brothers. There are musicians I've played with that will always be like distant brothers. We may not see each other very often nowadays, but when we do, it is like a big group hug and nothing ever changed in our relationship since we last talked.
The band I'm in now is a large one and I only knew one or two of the guys when I first joined over 6 years ago. It took some time, but over the years I would say that I have nearly brother-like relationships with a few of the guys. We do have a couple of logical cliques, but everyone gets along famously. Doing music primarily for fun is a big driver for this. I would not want it any other way.
I've sat in with a couple of groups where there is clear tension amongst the band members, like fights in the dressing room and so forth. Not to say that my bands have never fought, but it is an exception rather than the norm.
We used to have a saying in the band I played with for 10 years called "Going for a swim." One night we had a big band blow-up about something really stupid. We were checking into a hotel at like 4 in the morning and somehow we all ended up throwing each other into the outdoor pool. It was a chilly night and we were kind of drunk. It was probably the most therapeutic way to diffuse the anger and it became a frequent used method in the subsequent years.
It's been years since I've "gone for a swim" with a band mate, but would not hesitate to do if it was needed to break the tension.
Regards,
Eric
_________________________
"Actually, this is what I came for. Look at all this gear. I love equipment. I love it to be stacked up high." | Stewart Copeland SoulerCoaster
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#1687923 - 08/02/05 01:27 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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A terrific bunch of input from EVERYONE. 
- Jeff
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#1687924 - 08/04/05 05:23 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Geekgurl
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Hi all, I'm a little late to this party, but I'll add my 2 cents ...
It's true when I started out playing I found myself in bands with friends ... as I got older and was capable of going to auditions/rehearsals outside of my neighborhood, sure, I was playing with strangers.
When I look back on the endeavors that have been most successful for me (I don't mean in monetary sense; I mean in enjoyment and longevity of project or my participation in the project), personalities have been very important. We may not start out as friends, but in the best projects, I usually become legitimate friends outside of the band with at least one person. And everyone in the band at least gets along ...
I have many musician friends from past bands. These are people who I DON'T work with currently, and may never work with again. But we keep in touch, they're not trippin', I'm not trippin'.
The person I'm working with now is one of my closest friends; I had never met him before the start of our project.
At this stage in my life, dealing with ego clashes and arguments among band members just isn't worth it. I won't "settle" for lacking musicianship just to have a band of friends, but I'd rather play with people whose company I enjoy -- and there are plenty of good musicians with personalities compatible to mine.
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#1687925 - 08/04/05 08:52 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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forceman
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word.
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#1687926 - 08/05/05 02:42 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Originally posted by geekgurl:
At this stage in my life, dealing with ego clashes and arguments among band members just isn't worth it. I won't "settle" for lacking musicianship just to have a band of friends, but I'd rather play with people whose company I enjoy -- and there are plenty of good musicians with personalities compatible to mine.
The fact is, there are enough musicians out there to find that right balance of ability and personality. It speaks volumes to those who think that their hot-shot playing skills are enough in and of themselves to be a desirable bandmate.
In most jobs, you don't have the luxury of choosing the people you work with. A band can indeed be a rare hybrid of friendship and business relationship if you stick to your standards about who you choose to play with.
- Jeff
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#1687927 - 08/05/05 03:05 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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forceman
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The last two situations I have experienced went something like this--
1. I listed in Cragslist--musician (keyboardist) looking for GIGGING bands
2. got responses, established dialog, selected.
3. a "warm-up" gig was lined up (2-3 weeks in the future)
4. However, this "warm-up gig" was a personal favor to someone (wedding, for example)
5. learned the material
6.bla bla bla
7. the very next rehearsal after the "gig", they started hitting me up for money--rehearsal space, new monitors, etc.
8. In the meantime, the paying gigs seemed to have disapeared.
9. the rehearsals became sloppy--unfocused, people arriving late, arguements, etc.
10. I bail.
I think the next time I will run it--after all, I have run businesses before and see little difference between hiring/firing consultants and musicians.
Personally I like gigs because they are tangible goals.
Maybe I am weird but I don't think so.
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#1687928 - 08/05/05 04:22 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Originally posted by forceman:
I think the next time I will run it--after all, I have run businesses before and see little difference between hiring/firing consultants and musicians.
My singer is 52. A perspective he brings to the band is, "I don't have time to screw around."
So he stays very focused on keeping us booked, and he's very intent on having practice every single week, and is fine rehearsing the same set list week after week.
Conversely, my drummer, a bit of a "I'm a rock star, I don't need to practice unless we're learning new matierial or have a crucial gig next week" kind of guy, is always in conflict with the singer.
They're both good at what they do, but I can tell you that in the long term, they can't function together in the same band environment. Both of their outlooks are valid... but just not with each other.
I think that you DO need to take control of the situation and build something from scratch with people that share your vision. otherwise, your potential to run into the same situation over and over again remains as high as it ever was.
- Jeff
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#1687929 - 08/08/05 10:28 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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EddiePlaysBass
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Originally posted by geekgurl:
I won't "settle" for lacking musicianship just to have a band of friends, but I'd rather play with people whose company I enjoy -- and there are plenty of good musicians with personalities compatible to mine.
Today, I think I would handle it differently. I have decided that, like geekgurl stated, I won't settle for lacking musicianship. That said, I am usually the "weakest link" in the band, in that respect that I have the least experience (I've been playing bass for 3 years now).
_________________________
"... and I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend ..." (Dream Theater - Space Dye Vest) My band - The Dapper Dans
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#1687930 - 08/08/05 11:52 AM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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Geekgurl
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Hi guys, I'm glad you see where I'm coming from and that I don't seem like I'm expecting too much. I think self-respect is really important; bands are like relationships, and if others in the relationship are not treating themselves or you with respect, it can only be bad.
I should comment on the corollary to "I won't settle for lacking musicianship and I'd rather play with people whose company I enjoy ..." ... which is, if I am not as strong a musician as the others in the band (a situation I'm in a lot, because that's my way of improving), they better be professional about it (if I'm paying them) or supportive (if we're doing it for fun). Otherwise, I will definitely bow out of that lineup next time around. If they're "settling" for me and have a problem with it, they better have the decency to make the right decision, or I will make it for them.
I want to continually grow as a musician, but I just can't sacrifice my mental and emotional health for "opportunities" anymore. When I was younger I was more willing to seize perceived opportunities at considerable discomfort to me (personality clashes, drug users, bandmates in and out of jail ...). Now, not so much. I'm still musically hungry, but I have less tolerance of certain kinds of uncomfortable situations.
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#1687931 - 08/09/05 01:21 PM
Re: Friends or Business Partners?
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flyscots
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A bunch of my friends are in a decent heavy rock band here in Scotland. A few years ago, just when heavyish music was finidng it's way back into the mainstream they were looking good for getting somewhere. Everyone agreed they had good songs and were all good players. The trouble was, the singer was never good enough.
As the band were all friends no-one ever really made an effort to do something about the singer - ie. replace him. Potential deals slipped by and today the band are still playing the same clubs in the same city, having seamingly missed their chance.
I suppose if it's done right then friends can be in bands together, but if something is wrong you have to decide which is the priority - the music or the friendship.
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