#1684454 - 01/21/07 01:20 AM
Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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DdubBdrum
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Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Hello everyone,
As you can see I'm new to the Music Player forums so feel free to move this to the 'appropriate' place because this was the best place i could think of to put it at this point.
Anyways, I was wondering if external mic preamps are necessary for a loud and clear sound. I am guessing that the ones included in most mixers are not quite up to par with what most would prefer for a high end studio sound.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me or give me a link to a site with good information concerning mic pre's? Also, how are mic preamps compatible with preamped mixers? Are there requirements that have to be matched for them to be compatible?
Thanks for helping out a young engineer guys!
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#1684455 - 01/21/07 09:06 AM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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miroslav
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Depends on the mixer...
High-end mixing consoles usually have very good pres, but most high end studios will still have additional high-end outboard pres.
In their case...it's about having many flavors and many options.
For those that can only afford a cheap Mackie...or some other low-budget mixer...the onboard pres are not going to be of very high quality, in most cases...and it is wise to have at least one or two outboard preamps (depending on how many simultaneous channels you record at any one time).
I have a nice mid-quality mixer...and the pres are actually quite decent...but I also have 14 channels of outboard preamps, some of which are a much better quality...and the others provide different flavors.
Also...there are no compatibility issues between outboard pres and onboard pres. Usually people will run the outboard pres straight to their recorder, for the cleanest path...but, if you have bring the output of the outboard pres back through your mixer, you just use the line outs of the pre and the line ins of the mixer...it's not a pre-to-pre thing...
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1684456 - 01/21/07 09:32 AM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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Kendrix
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Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 2150
Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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What miroslav said.
I'd just add that it's always a question of what is the weakest link in your chain.
If, like many folks starting out, you dont have particularly good mics then upgrading the mic before upgrading the pre may be the way to go.
Of couse, it all depends on the specific gear in question and what you are trying to achieve.
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#1684457 - 01/21/07 12:54 PM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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DdubBdrum
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Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Seattle, WA
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great, that answers my question! I was just wondering because I have started getting deeper and deeper in to music production and recording and I'm hearing more and more about mic pre's and I was curious, since most of the nice ones cost upwards of $1g if they were crucial in a good sound.
So Miroslav, you say that you should atleast have 2 outboard preamps depending on how many tracks you record simultaneously. How about eight tracks simultaneously?
If I got one, which I probably won't for a while, which mics would you recommend running through it? Like say, during drum tracking where I would obviously have to choose which ones to run through, unless of course I got a 6-8 channel mic pre. would you say the overhead/room mics? or kick and snare?
thanks for answering all my questions! And please tell me i'm retarded if you want me to go do my own damn research. :-)
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#1684458 - 01/21/07 02:54 PM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally posted by DdubBdrum:
Hello everyone,
As ... I was wondering if external mic preamps are necessary for a loud and clear sound. ...
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Clear is a moving target. Do you want Mackie clear, John Hardy clear, George Massenburg clear, or something in the $10,000 a channel range of clear?
And are you sure that 'clear' is what you are looking for?
Lynn Fuston over at 3daudioinc.com has put together a preamp CD and a newer Preamps in Paradise DVD. You want to hear a lot of top flight pres? That will be the best way to audition them in your own home on your own system. Hell, having Michael Wagener show you how to mic a guitar amp is worth the cost of the DVD, all by itself!
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684459 - 01/21/07 05:46 PM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by DdubBdrum:
... depending on how many tracks you record simultaneously. How about eight tracks simultaneously?
I do a lot of work with just 1-2 mics at any given moment, since I'm multi-tracking...
...but there are times where I've had 8-10-12 mics up at the same time.
You should plan on having at least 1 really good vocal mic (you can use it on other things too) and maybe 2-4 instrument mics to start.
Also...at least 4 pre amp channels, so you can do 4 mics on drums (more mics = more preamps).
I do all my drums with only 4 mics...two overhead mics as an M/S stereo pair...and one on Snare and the other on the Kick.
Which mics....which pres...???
It depends on what you want to do and how much money you have to do it with.
There are plenty decent budget solution that will get you going...and as you dive in deeper...then you can also dig deeper into your wallet for better gear. 
If you plan on sticking with this...don't skimp on the mics or the pres.
2-3 great mics will serve you better, longer… than a dozen cheap ones.
If you tell us what you have...what you want to do...and how much money you have to spend at the moment...we can give you better suggestions on gear choices that will stay in your budget but offer good value.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1684461 - 01/21/07 09:05 PM
Re: Is a seperate mic pre necessary?
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DdubBdrum
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Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 33
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Well right now I'm a high school student with a limited budget, but an unlimited enthusiasm for audio production. I'm a drummer, and I just bought a 6pc DW kit which is why I don't have much money at the moment.
As far as pro audio/recording gear, I don't have anything too expensive yet, and my set ups have changed over the last few years as I decide where I want to take this. As of now I'm holding off on buying so I can save and get what will last me a while. I track by firewire into a Mac iBook 1.3ghz w/ 1.25gb RAM. I have a Behringer Eurorack ub2442mx mixer, an sm57 and a nady drum mic pack that I've fooled around with through my younger, less experienced years. I'm expecting KRK Rokit RP8 monitors for my birthday which is coming up, so I can atleast basically rely on what I'm hearing when I mix. I am planning on picking up a Presonus firepod and running direct outs from the behringer to the firepod into the computer.
I figure it's time to upgrade and do it right this time, so that my gear will last me a long time. It is my full intention to continue my sound engineering education through college and hopefully into a career, or a serious hobby.
My next targets to save for are nice large diaphragm mics and mic pres. I have investigated the Shure KSM 32's and 44's and I'm liking what I read in the reviews. Is this a good place to start or should I look else where, like Rode, AKG, Neumann?
As far as mic pre's go, all I've seen is that they're pricy for good ones. I'm afraid, like you guys said, that this is something that I'm going to have to live with if I want lasting quality. I've heard Neve talked about frequently, and I've looked into Grace preamps as well. (expensive!)
I hope that gives you a bit more information concerning my aim with audio production. My budget at any given time is very fluid as it is spread between my bank account, cash and paychecks. Thanks for taking the time to help me out!
-Joe
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