#1684374 - 07/29/06 06:55 AM
Favorite REFERENCE records?
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BrianK
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I am curious as to what people here listen to, as an audio reference. I am here at a live concert setting up, and the sound guy always uses a Steely Dan track to check and set the PA. This is a common reference.
Obviously, there are some good reasons for certain albums to be used. They have extended (and flat) bass, they have good balance in all frequencies, and are relatively neutral.
But if they "sound good everywhere", they may not be a good reference. Have you used recordings to check your mixes/monitors, and why?
My own:
1) Often I use a Roger Water's CD (Amused to Death) as it has VERY precise imaging and detail. I try to get as "clear" as that (although I don't like the lack of warmth it has on most tracks).
2) AC/DC: Highway to Hell - good balances for guitars (you can check of they sound too thin or fat for midrange EQ), drier drums, and tight and careful vocal placement.
(Other times, I run through ANY 5 or 6 cd's quickly to see what the "average" is.)
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#1684375 - 07/29/06 03:00 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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Mike P
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I think that using CD's as a reference, especially for the bedroom studio guy, can't be stressed enough. It's so easy for many people to get fooled into thinking their mixes sound good when there's no frame of reference. I've encoded every CD I own at 320kbs and have 45 gigs of music that I can hear or import directly into an existing song for comparison. It also helps to establish how your music will translate to other systems.
I mainly write and record modern rock and begin the process by breaking down each individual instrument. Whose snare do I gig? Whose bass tone isn't muddy but isn't too bright? Who has thick guitars but aren't buzzy? There are all questions that I ask and try to answer. I'm still adding and subtracting gear to my studio, but I'm getting very close to what I want to hear.
These are pretty much my current references, though I alway check a larger variety of sources during mixing.
Snare: To me, the snare can make a break a song. I like to build mixes around the snare and kick so that they have plenty of space to breathe, even if there's 4 distorted guitars and harmony vocals going on.
Audioslave's "Show Me How to Live" has a very fat snare with a little ring. It's very open in the beginning of the song and really shows its character. Velvet Revolver's "Illegal I Song" is another good reference for me since it starts out snare only. I've reference both STP's Core and Soundgarden's Superunknown albums as well as early Van Halen.
Kick: A variety of modern rock sources such as Filter's "Welcome to the Fold", Velvet Revolver's "Illegal I Song", Disturbed's "Stricken" (because it's a little too loud and thin) and Perfect Circle's "Pet". I admit to liking the kick a little scooped, with some top end because I've found the "woodier" sounding kick drum doesn't cut in my mixes.
Toms: Foo Fighter's "Resolve" versus Godsmack's "Straight Out of Line". If my toms are too close to Godsmack's, I back off the highs and high mids because they're too brittle sounding to me. I try to balance between those two songs.
Bass Guitar: Alice in Chains "Would", Puddle of Mudd's "Already Gone", Velvet Revolver's "Sucker Train Blues" are all good sources for me because they're highlighted alone and in the mix. It's good to hear them separately, then how they sit in the mix. Robert DeLeo's tone on STP's Purple record is great, too.
Distorted Guitar: Highway to Hell, You Really Got Me (VH), Wicked Sensation (Lynch Mob), Sad But True (Metallica), Straight Out of Line (Godsmack) and Meatplow (STP). They're all different but share certain elements. I'm using a Marshall & a Recfier, blending what I think to be the best elements of both (the mids & highs of the Marshall and lows of the Rectifier) and all of these songs help to put my sound in perspective. I don't like buzzy, but I don't like muddy. It's a delicate balance and as always, too much gain really muds up a track. I usually have the gain around 1-2 O'clock on each amp and that makes the track bigger than full-on distortion.
Top Five Overall Mixes I'm using (at least, today!)
1) Foo Fighters - DOA
2) Puddle of Mudd - Away From Me
3) The Cult - Rise (because it's muddy & smashed)
4) Highway to Hell
5) Perfect Circle - The Outsider
6) Take A Look Around (MI:2) - Limp Bizkit (hate the band but it's a great mix)
I hope all my babbling helps someone out.
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#1684376 - 07/30/06 08:43 AM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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miroslav
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While I don't have a specific set of CDs that I always listen to prior to doing my own mixes...
…there have been those CDs that over the years, burned their sound deep into my brain, and now I can easily recall it in a "big picture" sort of way.
And I like it better that way...having an overall perception of their sound...rather than focusing on just the bass or just the drums, etc…from any given CD...and then trying to get my tracks to sound exactly like them.
That way...I am not chasing after something that may not be attainable, given my own circumstances and the manner in which I tracked/edited...relative to all the other tracks in the mix.
I like Snares to *pop!*...even on more mellower ballads. You can have the volume down...but the snare needs to be clear and well defined.
The Kick is a big *THUMP!*...with medium *crack!*...and overall it's a bit more “pillowy” than on the hard side.
And that goes in line with the Bass which I also like a bit more on the fat/woolly side than edgy/funky/poppy...though there's some stuff where you need a bit more presences out of the bass.
After that...the guitars, organ, piano and other instruments are usually dictated by the mood of the song and the arrangement.
And even though I have a favorite overall sound for the drums and bass…I do adjust them as needed by the song…but mostly it’s in the playing or I may just use a different bass guitar or switch out the snare to a smaller/larger/metal/wood one…’til I find something that matches up to what I’m hearing in my head.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1684377 - 07/30/06 02:43 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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wwittman
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Registered: 12/07/01
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I have a CD that has:
Free Fallin'
You Shook Me (all night long)
One Of Us
Time After Time
that's enough to tell me the range of the monitors AND how it relates to or would have affected my own recording
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#1684378 - 07/30/06 02:45 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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wwittman
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I also carry Steely Dan in case of a poisoning in which I need to induce vomiting.
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#1684380 - 07/30/06 11:03 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Today, "Hourglass" by James Taylor would have to be high on the list. Tracks 4 and 9 tell me worlds about the low end, tightness, and smear,a nd just about any of the other tracks will check for even tone and definition.
Bill
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#1684381 - 08/01/06 05:15 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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J.J. Blair
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For rock, I find myself using an STP record that Brendan O'Brien did. Mainly to check the tone and level of kick, snare, bass level and EQ, and overall brightness.
Even though I do like Steely Dan, I don't think I'd ever use them for a mix reference. Actually, I did mix a fuzak record, and I think I might have pulled them up for that.
I think it depends on what I'm working on though for reference mixes. During the glam band, I was using Aladin Sane a lot. When I did Joker Five Speed, I was listening to GNR and AC/DC.
10CC Deceptive Bends is a great reference CD, btw.
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#1684382 - 08/02/06 01:38 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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kjcoral
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man, am i out here on a island or what cuz my reference is the re-mastered "dusty in memphis!??" it has everything, IMHO and tommy dowd behind the board and arif mardin arrangements...genius...
no wonder records i work on don't sell!
but sometimes they get good reviews! ha! that'll help feed the baby, right?
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#1684383 - 08/11/06 07:32 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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wwittman
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It's really about what records tell you what you NEED to know about the monitors.
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#1684384 - 08/17/06 11:18 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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kjcoral
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Originally posted by wwittman:
It's really about what records tell you what you NEED to know about the monitors.
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#1684385 - 08/23/06 07:19 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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J.J. Blair
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"In the Land of Make Believe" is one of my favorite Bacharach songs. Dusty kills it. "Willy and Laura Mae Jones" is amazing, too. (Not that this has to do with references.)
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Friends don't let friends act like rockstars.
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#1684386 - 09/18/06 10:31 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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BrianK
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It's true that the reference tells you something about the monitors - because EACH song you have is different (or SHOULD be!) the reference is a comparison only in what you can hear, what you can't hear - like someone giving you a roadmap for what's right and wrong in that instance...
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1684387 - 09/18/06 10:33 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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BrianK
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I'll never forget when i first tested NS-10 monitors. I played "Highway to Hell" on them, which I consider and exclellent-sounding rock record. And on the NS-10s, it sounded terrible! I thought - why wouuld you have mixed these tracks to sound "terrible".
Conclusion = NS-10 are bad reference monitors! Time has proven me right, I think.
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1684388 - 09/19/06 12:41 AM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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Mike P
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Originally posted by BrianK:
Conclusion = NS-10 are bad reference monitors! Time has proven me right, I think.
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#1684389 - 10/04/06 01:35 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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Plugin Freak
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I've actually got them "NS-10's " to sound
good but I got a headache  and it didn't sound
completely mixed when I referenced it on good speakers.
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#1684390 - 01/13/07 05:50 PM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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foge
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To balance the negativity.
ns10s are good because they are not ported.
At least they got that right.
The amazing thing is the amount of people who tried to rip off the ns10 market but failed to notice that about ns10s
foge
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#1684391 - 01/24/07 12:01 AM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
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Matt.Hepworth
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I use "Creature" by Moist. Some of the very best production I've ever heard. If you're a Catherine Wheel fan, you'd dig.
The drums on that rock my socks.
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No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
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#1692049 - 01/26/07 06:12 AM
Re: Favorite REFERENCE records?
[Re: Matt.Hepworth]
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BrianK
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Live sound guys have it worst - total acoustic change (even PA change) in each venue. They also use reference music (usually jus one or two tracks) and set the system to do as common a sound as they can get.
It's still a "black art" knowing how this might affect your mix outside the studio....
Edited by BrianK (01/26/07 06:12 AM)
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