#1684321 - 07/04/06 02:09 PM
Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Tedster
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There's been a bit written about Beatles' sessions...what recording equipment, techniques, amps...
I've always been curious...does anyone know what type of (most likely rather primitive) sound reinforcement they used for the rooftop jam?
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1684322 - 07/08/06 07:25 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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The mics were AKG C-28s with VR 30 extensions. (I've got three of them.)
Bill
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#1684323 - 07/08/06 07:28 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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miroslav
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Hey Bill! 
Are you back to stay...or just passin' through?
They're asking for you over on the Guitar Player forum.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1684324 - 07/10/06 08:06 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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BrianK
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If you look closely, you'll see both the Fender PA head (new for them in this period) with columns facing out toward the street (as I recall). There were also VOX PA columns lying in front of them. These are set up as kind of a foldback system, note that it predates almost everyone using "wedges" on the floor as monitors (which seem to have ben started by The Who about a year or two later).
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#1684325 - 07/10/06 08:08 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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BrianK
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BTW - this is a good question, as it doesn't really affect much of what we're holding back for the book. Otherwise, I'm happy to discuss Beatles things here, but we want that first read to be full of "new" things for people when they first get the book.
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1684326 - 07/11/06 06:31 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Tedster
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Oh sure, I understand. This part doesn't directly relate to the "recording" aspect (most likely). I've never really seen it addressed anywhere else. Just about everyone my age or thereabouts remembers the old PA head with a pair of columns, evolving gradually into the huge systems (even at the local level) with 18" folded horns, a Perkins cabinet or two (or ten), a lens or a horn (or ten), and possibly some sort of tweeters...into the more efficient modular systems of today.
I see you reference The Who as being possibly the first to use wedge monitors. Now, excuse me, but I'm finding this fascinating...the "evolution of sound reinforcement systems". Do you know of any such published work?
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1684327 - 07/12/06 09:12 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by Tedster:
I see you reference The Who as being possibly the first to use wedge monitors. Now, excuse me, but I'm finding this fascinating...the "evolution of sound reinforcement systems". Do you know of any such published work?
I do not think that foldback was anything new or revolutionary, just rough to accomplish with rock in those primitive/expensive processor days, because we were such assholes about volume. I mean, who could aford a bunch of Fairchilds to drag around to clubs?
I spoke about this to Don Pearson a bunch, as he brought up the JBL rack mount mixers that he first cobbled together to make a monitor system for someone like the Airplane long before the creation of UltraSound... it was funny, because I had one of the same mixers in my studio, using it for mic pres... a very neat sound. I've since given it back to the fellow who first gave it to me many years ago... Mike Mazur. His work outside of his own stuff includes a lot of work for Korby Audio.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684328 - 07/12/06 11:34 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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dementedchord
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din't bob heil have something to do wih the use of wedges.... if memory serves his co did the early who tours.... one of the first touring systems.... had friends who worked for him in the 70's
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#1684329 - 07/13/06 06:48 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Well, as I said, foldback is not new. But I wonder who thought of the first seperate console, multiple mixes, and engineer for monitor work. THAT was ground-breaking and definitely happened in the rock era.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684330 - 07/15/06 08:12 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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BrianK
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Yes, as long as speakers have existed, people have turned them around so they could hear them. But a dedicated "monitor" rig is the key; people saying "we need this speaker each time, so we can hear ourselves". As the Beatles show would only use the vocal mics in the PA, there was no distinct mixer needed, just the same as the PA itself.
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#1684331 - 07/21/06 07:43 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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cube_monkey
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Hi,
Actually the mic's used on the roof are Neumann SRM-64 mics. Not really PA mics of course as they
were used to record the album. They most likely had to run the mics through the recording console (or some EMI box) then send the output at the proper level to the PA / monitor system as those PA's wouldnt have phantom power.
http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=hist_microphones&cid=srm64_photos
A small diaphram condenser. Very popular BBC mic,
the Beatles can be seen using them on their Revolution and Hey Jude videos.
I Believe the C-28 was used on Paul on his piano
songs.
Jay
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#1684333 - 07/21/06 10:11 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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cube_monkey
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Hey, no problem. I am glad I know now. Sure called that wrong. Course now that you corrected me, lol,tons of "beatles and c28" pages come up. sure...NOW i find this page:
http://help.com/wiki/The_Beatles
For those wanting to see a picture of a C28:
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/F21B63E8AC76E2F186256A7F00733F76
(I find it funny that now everyone uses small diaphram condensers for guitar and LD ones for vocals...its backwards on let it be. LD for guitar, SD for vocals).
Thanks
Jay
P.S I bet its a GREAT sounding mic!
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#1684334 - 07/21/06 10:30 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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It was a lot of fun writing that article, and a surprising journey back in time to check out the wonderful sound of a tube small diaphragm condenser mic. Tracy Korby (known for his work on large diaphragm condensers and his custom built LDs) now makes a tube SD mic, and three different mid-sized mics. There is a warmth and roundness to a tube SD that does not exist in the later solid state versions.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684335 - 07/22/06 02:33 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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J.J. Blair
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A couple of notes on the C28: The guts, with its 6072 tube and T14-1 transformer are essentially the same thing as a C12.
The difference between a CK28 and a CK1 capsule is likened to the difference between a origina CK12 and the teflon ring Ck12 found in the C414.
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Friends don't let friends act like rockstars.
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#1684336 - 07/22/06 03:39 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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wwittman
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You mean it's crappy?
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#1684337 - 07/22/06 09:56 PM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by J.J. Blair:
The difference between a CK28 and a CK1 capsule is likened to the difference between a origina CK12 and the teflon ring Ck12 found in the C414.
To tell you the truth, the VR tubes are a bad idea, technically, because of the high impedance of the capsules. But if you use the mics without the extension tubes, I've found that they sound better when you leave the pop filter/mic top off of the assembly.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684338 - 07/23/06 02:16 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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J.J. Blair
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I don't think CK1s are crappy. I'm just saying that some people find the CK28 to be more desirable.
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Friends don't let friends act like rockstars.
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#1684339 - 07/26/06 02:51 AM
Re: Question for Brian...Beatles-related...
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Tedster
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Definitely looks like Neumanns on the guitar amps, though.
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