#1684005 - 11/03/05 08:01 PM
Royalties dilemna
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flyscots
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Registered: 12/27/01
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Hi, this is more using your head than your ears, but hope it's ok here and relevant to all in some way.
Myself and a regular collaborator have been approached to work on a feature film, recording and editing all the ADR and foley. There will be a lot of work involved. It is a low budget movie but the expectations are pretty high, apparently.
Well because of the low budget, the pay is also low. However, we have been offered points instead. I dont know the full details and will of course have everything checked out before agreeing to anything, but I just wondered what you guys thought.
We have been offered 5 points (5%) each, which too me is quite high as I know how hard it can be to get just one point. The trouble is, there's no way of knowing how well the movie will do. 5% could be a heck of a lot or it could be next to nothing, but that's the chance you take isn't it.
My colleague would prefer to take a wage, or an upfront payment, but the offer is points or payment, not both. I'm wondering if accepting the points but asking for an advance would be the best option.
Personally I'd rather not have to worry about the money and just get on with it as the credit and experience alone is invaluable, but of course we all have to make a living. Oh all our expenses will be covered by the way.
Any thoughts? All comments appreciated
Thanks,
John Scott
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#1684006 - 11/03/05 08:16 PM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Points do you little good without access to the books. Think that you'll get access to the books? Now, guys like Alan Kline got where they were because they were acountants who knew what to look for in the books. Do you? I still remember James Gardner suing over Maverick.... he didn't ever get any royalties, though the show was in syndication forever. They just kept claiming that, due to 'expenses', the show never showed a profit, so he never earned anything.
Get cash.
It is my position that it is quite silly to do a job of any sort for less than what you normally expect to be paid. It is very hard to get a raise, much harder than it is to ask for what you are worth and be willing to walk away if you don't get it.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684007 - 11/04/05 12:42 AM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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Bill Roberts
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Registered: 01/18/03
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Loc: Florida
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Yep, Bill is right. Unless a tracking agent is on "full time" to confirm all the distribution, ticket sales, video sales, ..it will be all but impossible to get access to the bean counters figures. When I received some royalties, I had my own agent (well he worked for WB as a tracking agent, I hired him on the side) and it was a safeguard but still, cooking the books is routine these days. I'd opt for somewhere in the mid 5 digit range cash and take my chances. Unless this camp wants interns with little to no skills doing the heavy lifting, they should be able to caugh up at least enough dough to keep your skills on duty.
You know what you are worth and their "ain't no pie in the sky"
_________________________
Bill Roberts Precision Mastering
-----------Since 1975-----------
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#1684008 - 11/05/05 07:07 PM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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flyscots
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Thanks for the reality check guys!
I guess I was looking at it through ambitious, optimistic eyes. Plus I want this gig, I'm really looking forward to it. I wish we didnt have to worry about the money and could just get on with doing what we enjoy.
Bill R, you mentioned 5 digits - the entire budget of the movie is 5 digits!
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#1684009 - 11/06/05 03:43 AM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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Bill Roberts
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Bill R, you mentioned 5 digits - the entire budget of the movie is 5 digits!
Really now..honestly, if your heart is not in it to do 110% the best work you can (even if it is just exercise/review of skills) I would RUN..not walk from the project. In fact, some projects are so killer from the work ethic POV, I will do them for a "very low wage" to get my name on it...others, 6 digits may not get my attention.
To me, it is about money but moreso, it is about the comfort level and how I dig a project as well. Like I say, some projects you could not pay me to do. (even if I were the best man for them)
If the pay is "not there" or "not guranteed" and you want to do it, give it your all as if it was a high dollar machine. If it is an "ok project" then use your time wisely to meet your financial goals and get involved with this project "as time allows you to".
I hope this makes some sense. Of course, if this is the only current income, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
_________________________
Bill Roberts Precision Mastering
-----------Since 1975-----------
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#1684010 - 11/06/05 06:17 AM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I've seen so many of these 'cry poor' projects, and I get pissed off when they spend more on flowers for the dressing rooms than they try to spend on production elements. Generally, such crys are bullshit. They are simply trying to get over. On YOU. Let some other sucker do the gig.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684011 - 01/02/06 06:26 PM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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DangerousDave86
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Registered: 12/28/05
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If all your expenses are covered, why can't they cover the cost of you?
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#1684012 - 01/10/06 09:23 AM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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flyscots
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Actually we got it sorted, kind of. We're getting a payment, albeit a relatively low one, but something to keep us going. Plus the percentage is now up to 7%
It's been great fun so far and I've learned a lot. I've also been able to take time off and work on other projects while this one is ongoing, so I'm not missing out on anything.
Thanks for your comments though everybody, but so far so good!
John Scott
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#1684013 - 01/10/06 11:24 AM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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good on ya!
bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1684014 - 01/15/06 03:02 PM
Re: Royalties dilemna
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wwittman
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Registered: 12/07/01
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Loc: peekskill, NY, USA
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get a LAWYER.
And include statements and the right to audit in your agreement.
Is that 7% of GROSS? after what? right from day one?
These things need to be defined CLEARLY or the numbers don't mean anything to you.
7% of "profits" is useless as they can easily make it look on paper as though there NEVER is a profit.
Know what I mean?
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