#1683948 - 10/13/05 04:24 PM
Next trends in audio/production?
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BrianK
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 228
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I just got an album by a local band I've followed for a while. They finally got "a deal" and a repectable producer. Except the vocals are compressed BEYOND their life (their is a whisper section that is HUGE, immediately followed by a loud section that is TINY!)
My hope is that records will become
(A) less compressed/limited
(B) less overdone treble
We just need some more good, popular examples (White Stripes, Kings of Leon, etc).
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1683949 - 10/14/05 07:41 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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Kendrix
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Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 2150
Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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Ya know - at the producers forum at AES Puig and Clearmoountain were suggesting that producers & mixers should be the ones to create new trends & new sounds and excite the market.
Part of me agrees.
However, a bigger part of me thinks that the golden years for this sort of creativity have passed. Not that evolution wont occur- just that its pace will be much slower than in the past and its impact less pronounced.
Most technologies experience the S curve of development. With recording and audio production technology my sense is that we are now on the flat part of the curve- nearing maturity.
Maybe we will go more "in the box". Maybe bit depths or sample rates will increase. However, it seems we have hit the zone of diminishing returns in terms of the impact this will have on what the listener hears.
The way that music is becoming sub to video is also diluting its impact/ the markets focus on it.
Im afraid that the chances for a new era of really impactful creativity that measures up to that which occurred over the past 35+ years is low.
Im all for less squishing and more dynamics. However, this seems like a relatively subtle point thats unlikely to have major market impact.
So, its unlikely that something new will come along that hits me in the face quite the way that Hendrix's guitar tones did in 1968.
As the technolgies mature and the skills become more prevalent audio production is becoming more available/commoditized.
However, great material that is produced well will still find a home in the world.
Or NOT.
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#1683950 - 10/15/05 07:18 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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BrianK
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I'm actually not thinking of moving "forward" at all. Like many people, I think the best quaklity sound (and who woudl disagree?) was sound from the past.
Some Miles Davis recordings from the 1950's just KILL sonically, as do many 1970's recordings. By all measurable standards, they are superior recordings. I think things do not need to be HiFi all the time, but the trends now are SO unnatural that it will make disco and new wave seem like Motown classics!
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1683951 - 10/15/05 08:21 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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Fulc
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Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 227
Loc: here I am, you're looking at m...
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Piggybacking on Hendrix's comment on the "new era of really impactful creativity": now that we're standing on top of the mountain and everything seems possible, what's left to accomplish? Where can we go but down?
It sure seems like we're circling the drain sometimes, between kids who think that music begins and ends with Garageband and Acid Express, and mooks who pander to those kids.
I was listening to Kind of Blue last night, myself. Listening to both takes of Flamenco Sketches it struck me that people took the time to master the various crafts that came together and synergized into that record. Miles knew enough about music to conceptualize the five pieces and create the framework around which each would be played; he also had to know enough about trumpet and improvising to play those charts. As did Trane, Cannonball, Evans, Kelly, Chambers, and Cobb on their respective instruments. The engineers had to know what to do to capture that sound on tape. And so on.
Nowadays the software enginners have tried real hard to abstract those techniques into software with varying degrees of success, and people are born into this world thinking it's always been just that easy, and they don't discriminate between the stuff that sounds superlative and the stuff that sounds just meh.
That might be a good thing in some regards-- treating sound as sound without judging it by the pristine nature of it or lack thereof.
For those of us who do discriminate, it might also be time to consider where that discrimination should begin. With our equipment, or with the songs we're being asked to engineer into some form of sonic life?
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#1683952 - 10/15/05 08:55 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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miroslav
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Registered: 05/23/00
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I don't think we are on top of the mountain...but rather on a very long and large plateau...and many have lost sight of the mountain peaks, way off in the distance.
I don't disagree that recording digitally with DAWs can sound good.
That the theoretical and speck'ed-out limits of digital seem to far surpass tape and much of what analog can do.
But...the proof just ain't in the pudding in so many cases.
In my own minute recording world…maybe it’s just my imagination…but I alwys seem to get better results when I do things “old school”…than when I try to stay ITB.
With ITB…it’s just SO HARD…NOT TO…slice-n-dice the shit out things…which 9-out-of-10 times…kills that raw, organic, open sound.
It’s doesn’t happen the minute you go ITB…but as you work your way through…it just ends up that way.
When I stay OTB…it all seems to retain more of it’s “life”.
It may be possible to find ways of NOT killing it…but so far…it’s like the DAW takes control…and your hands are just doing what the DAW tells you to do…
…or maybe it’s what the DAW tells you the you CAN do…so…you do it…over and over.
People seem to abuse digital technology/capability a lot more readily and easily than they ever did with analog and with tape.
And the huge amount of abuse, has led to the subconscious establishment of certain "norms" for how things should be done and how they should sound.
So mostly anyone with a DAW...from a big studio to a dinky home setup...has the ability to live up to those "norms"...and it's just become this huge plateau in recording...that IMO...whenever someone gets near the edge or moves off to a different level...it almost sounds like it's wrong/bad...because it doesn’t conform to the new "norm".
The youth...as they move up and learn...are immediately sucked into this "norm"...because no longer does it take years of listening/studying/working/learning...
…before they can actually do their own thing in a studio...or to even own a studio.
Now days...$2000...a trip to Staples for a PC...a couple of quick online audio purchases...and they have a "studio"...and a very assumed audio knowledge.
With a few bucks and a few mouse clicks...they have circumvented all those years of listening/studying/working/learning...and they are instantly ready to perpetuate...the new "norm".
In addition...the current music "biz"...seems to give little shit about that "norm"...or about trying to set a new one.
For the most part...it's all about quick, disposable "entertainment"...passing sound bytes that are quickly replaced by the never-ending abundance of "product" that exists on that large plateau.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1683953 - 10/16/05 05:37 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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BrianK
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 228
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Limitations ARE powerful. I would LOVE to be told - you only get 16 tracks. You only get two compressors, two guitars, 8 mics, and two weeks!
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#1683954 - 10/18/05 01:00 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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mattwine
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Registered: 08/05/05
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I really hate the endless revisions that can ruin what once was a good mix.
As soon as you overthink and start to micro mix, something is almost always lost.
I sort of miss the days when recall was a bitch.
The vocal compressed beyond belief sound is I think a byproduct of the Tom Lord-Alge vocal sound.
I've seen people pin an 1176 when the vocal was already heavily compressed. The breaths end up as loud as the singing at that point.
Years ago I never thought I'd see the day when I was tired of heavy compression, but I'm now there.
Bad tasteless use of sound replacing is also a huge trend.
Is recording a drum set really that hard?
Is it really that bad if every kick and snare hit doesn't sound exactly the same and have the same exact level?
My last complaint?
Musicians who can't even come close to getting through a take without some disaster. It's just sad.
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#1683955 - 10/18/05 05:42 AM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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BrianK
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 228
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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>>Years ago I never thought I'd see the day when I was tired of heavy compression, but I'm now there.<<
I know! I love compression and pop sounds. But I have BAILED on several CDs I boguht recently due to this one artifact! I can listen to bad songs, but NOT bad compression!
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Relax and float downstream...
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#1683956 - 12/06/05 11:35 PM
Re: Next trends in audio/production?
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blas
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Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 517
Loc: St. Louis, MO. USA
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Guys, I'm jumpin' in months later but I believe/hope what will be NEXT will be introducing people (especially teens, twenty's) away from this now 'quantity over quality' mindset. I continue to work in surround projects and with bit rates they can't get with their little Ipods. At some point, we will turn a corner and the masses WILL want quality...and hopefully, more channels too!
blas
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