#1683864 - 09/27/05 10:31 PM
Help with In ear monitor systems
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Stackimo
Senior Member
Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 459
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
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Hail all,
Visiting from the Bass Player forums (Low Downer)
My band is interested in replacing the wedges with an in ear monitor system. There are 4 members in our band. Our board has 2 aux. sends and not all of our members may be able to purchase their own body pack right away.
We have been looking to piece together a system such as the Shure P4MTRE3. (http://www.shure.com/psm/models/p4mtre3.asp).
Has anyone had experience with this unit and does it have the ability to provide usage by 4 members effectively, if we purchase 3 more body packs and earphones?
Also, feel free to offer up any other advise on this and other systems.
Thanks
_________________________
"Some people are like "slinkies". They're not really good for anything;
but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a
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#1683865 - 09/27/05 11:09 PM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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In ears can be very cool. Just follow a few simple precautions.... a brick wall limiter, for example, on the output to protect the band. And make sure that nobody tries to wear just one. (That will really mess up your hearing.)
You could hardwire the drummer, keyboard player, or anyone else who doesn't travel very far. Like, if a guitar player has a cord to his rig, he could have a headphone cord to a hard-wired monitor feed. This is a lot cheaper, and makes good sense for the less mobile members of the group. I'm betting that most club bands could do this, and save a bundle.
You can get the in-ear phones from the same companies that make the custom in-ear plugs.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1683866 - 09/29/05 01:50 AM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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wwittman
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Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 120
Loc: peekskill, NY, USA
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I'm going to disagree wih some of that.
First off a brick wall limter is going to sound lousy, and really may tend to bring up some unwanted backgroun garbage in your ears, which can be very disconcerting.
I suppose you could set a limtier WAY above reaosnable music threshold as a last ditch protector against a huge noise.. but it's not really going to protect you ina MEANINGFUL way..
which brings me to number 2 - you really should have a real, full time monitor engineer to make in-ears work effectively... otherwise you;re only going to struggle, not be happy, and have more problems to deal with during the show.
next, drummers in particualr don't usually feel the OOOMPH from in-ears alone to be enough... so either drum fills as well, or a seat shaker of some sort is usually a good idea.
also, 2 aux sends are not LIKELY to be enough.
On stage, you hear your own instruemtn from your amps and you can somewhat adjust your balance by chanign your amp or just moving around to hear what you need... probably MOST of what's in your wedges is vocals and some drums, perhaps.
with ears, all of a sudden ALL you hear is your monitor mix.. and that means everyone wants "more me" in order to play and feel it, as WSELL as a good mix of whatever else you want and perhaps DON'T want to hear.
so ideally everyone needs his own individual mix.
Plus stereo helps a lot because of the clairty gained by spreading things out in the stereo filed AND the ability to shove something on a side in case you need to mentally ignore it during a show.
With your set-up odds are high that you'll end up with one mono mix to your drummer and another mono mix to EVERYONE else. Not a truly workable situation for MOST people.
lastly.. I might suggest that given your limitations, if you still want to try ears, that wearing ONE ear with just your vocqal in it IS a good way to start and see.
Yes, it;s true that the tednency is to play that one ear louder than wearing two would have you do.
But it's STILL probably not as loud as your wedge...
If you're careful and not crazy, it CAN work... and it lets's you reach down to your pack and dial in as much vocal as you need.. of course the limitaion is that you have ALL the vocals in that ear.. not just yours.
hope this helps.
Once you DO get into them they really are great.
And the freedom to move about the stage (or even the enitre venue) and hear nearly the same mix going with you is a real pleasure.
But you ARE at the mercy of that mix.. so it needs to be right.
ps good custom molded in-ears are by far the best way to go, though pricey. But "generic" models like the SHure EM-2 or the Future SOnics EM-3 can have custom molded silicone sleeves added for about another 150 dollars, which is a fairly reaosnable price to get a really good seal, better bass, and a close to true high end sound.
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#1683867 - 09/29/05 06:26 AM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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Stackimo
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Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 459
Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
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Thank you for the response. I am taking all this into consideration. I am limited with the 2 aux. sends and it is an expense, therefore I am weighing the potential vs. what I am used to.
_________________________
"Some people are like "slinkies". They're not really good for anything;
but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a
flight of stairs."
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#1683868 - 09/29/05 11:08 AM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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PookyNMR
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Registered: 01/01/04
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Loc: Edmonton, AB, Canada
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I use these all the time on stage.
Most popular models have a limiter built in to protect you from any problems. (You would be wise to ensure yours does.) You will hear it distort when it kicks in so you will know that you need to turn the feed down. (There's no worry about increasing the background noise.)
Everyone who uses in-ears will need their own mix. I've tried sharing a mix with someone else many times before, even when only wearing one ear bud (to hear stuff from the stage). It's not a good idea. You'll both want to hear different things.
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Nathan Rousu
HV Studio
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#1683869 - 09/29/05 11:19 PM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally posted by wwittman:
... you;re only going to struggle, not be happy, and have more problems to deal with during the show.
A brick wall limiter does nothing to the signal until the threshold is crossed. It appears from your description that you are talking about some sort of compression.
"you really should have a real, full time monitor engineer to make in-ears work effectively... "
Having been a full time monitor engineer, I heartily endore this concept. But not just because of the use of in-ears. A full time monitor guy is a joy to have.
"drummers in particualr don't usually feel the OOOMPH from in-ears alone to be enough... so either drum fills as well, or a seat shaker of some sort is usually a good idea."
Yes, drummers love thumpers. Some use two. Very helpful with in-ear systems. As is a stereo pair of ambient mics mixed into the rig, which helps make everyone in the band feel more comfortable and less closed in.
"2 aux sends are not LIKELY to be enough."
Yup. But it is a place to start.
"...probably MOST of what's in your wedges is vocals and some drums, perhaps."
That is pretty old-school. I agree with it, and prefer it, but that hasn't been the reality on most stages that I work for 10 years or better.
"...wearing ONE ear with just your vocqal in it IS a good way to start and see."
I can't object to this concept fervently enough. But it's your hearing you are messing with. If you choose to put it at risk, it is your business.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1683870 - 09/30/05 11:56 PM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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wwittman
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Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 120
Loc: peekskill, NY, USA
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>>>"...probably MOST of what's in your wedges is vocals and some drums, perhaps."
>>That is pretty old-school. I agree with it, and prefer it, but that hasn't been the reality on most stages that I work for 10 years or better.
That's certainly true for larger venues and larger syastems with multiple monitor mixes.
But at the level of a young band without a monitor engineer and with 2 aux sends... those bands often still tend to have just vocals in their wedges.
It's all they can manage.
I'm not a monitor engineer... but I get to see how many young bands I've produced get to tour and what they have to deal with.
It isn't pretty.
We're talking now, one band I'm in the studio with, about moving them to ears of some sort. But they WON'T have their own monitor guy and need to figure out how they can make it work without creating more problems.
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#1683871 - 10/02/05 08:43 AM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Years ago I got to do a one nighter with Doc Severenson and his band. Each of the guys had is own little mixer. These days there are a bunch of poersonal monitor setups, from Masque Sound's Pit Mix (I think that is what it is called...), Myteks Personal Q, through some cheaper options. The end result is that each guy has an 8x or 16x mixer of his own.
I imagine a clever guy could cobble something together using the direct outs of the console, with a splitter or some wye cables and a handful of Mackie 1202s.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1683872 - 10/02/05 11:48 AM
Re: Help with In ear monitor systems
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J.J. Blair
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Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 326
Loc: Hollywood, CA
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There are a number of personal headphone mixers available for the studio. People should be using these live with their in ear monitors, if they aren't already.
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