#1683626 - 08/07/05 12:11 AM
BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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Red Winger
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Okay, I admit, I stole this from HC, but it is a quote from last month's EQ so it really belongs here and I'm curious as to what the mods and others say to this.
BT, in his interview, gives a "trick" away to cut everything other than Bass and kick at 120 Hz (actually, he says "shelve" but I'm presuming he really means "cut" -- if I'm off here, that would be interesting info as well). Thoughts?
I typically do cuts to free up space in EQ, but don't have a "rule of thumb" like this, so am interested to hear others' thoughts.
Cheers,
Mark
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#1683627 - 08/07/05 09:24 AM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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miroslav
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My usual MO is to do more rolling-off and less boosting, as I adjust EQs on individual tracks...
..but...I don't just roll-off the LF...at specific crossover points.
I prefer to slowly adjust/blend the EQ on all the tracks...rather than apply a "rule" such as BT suggests...but hey...whatever works for him. 
First I'll solo each track and actually BOOST the EQ as I sweep through the frequencies. I do this to help me find the more annoying, resonant frequency range for that particular track...and when I find it…THAT'S where I will apply the actual cut/roll-off….either in the low or mid or high ends. I do this keeping in mind the general "good"/expected operating range of each particular track.
Then once each individual track is set...I'll readjust while bringing up other tracks, until they are all up.
It's several small adjustments, while working the whole mix...rather than just picking a single frequency point (like 120Hz)...and slashing everything below it.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1683628 - 08/07/05 11:02 AM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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tripit
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Maybe if all you do is work with dance/trance loops and your doing the kind of music BT does, you can do that. His music tends to pretty much be the same thing.
I wouldn't apply such a rule. Every session and project is so different. Every mix is different. To wholesale a certian freq cut accross the board wouldn't make the best mixes.
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#1683629 - 08/07/05 11:09 AM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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J.J. Blair
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Registered: 07/22/05
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My particular thing, and I guess this would mean that I tend to agree with the idea (but not the statement), is that you don't have to and probably shouldn't have full frequency on a lot of the other instruments, particularly electric guitar. I wouldn't say that I shelf or hi pass them, I just don't record them with lots of lows.
Here's my thinking: If you record keys, guitars and a number of other things all full range sounding, they really crowd the mix and fight for the same space. It's easier to get separation without heavy lows on those tracks. Also, with distorted guitar, if you simply capture the texture properly, and then get the right bass tone, the low end from the bass will fill up the bottom end of the guitar, and give it the illusion that it is a lot fuller than it seems. Listen to Zeppelin for a great example of that. None of those guitars have hardly anything below 150hz. They generally used small combo amps and distant mic'd them, at that. Yet the phrase "Zeppelin records sound thin to me" is uttered probably even less than the phrase "Please stop sucking my d**k." (I'm such a naughty mod!)
I also agree with Miroslav. Having a 'rule' like that is stupid. Here's a rule: Use your fücking ears, not your calculator. Besides, even though I tend to trim out a couple db at 125 hz on the kick and bass on my API 560b, simply because this is the frequency area where I notice civilan speakers tend to crap out and fart, I'll boost everything below it, especially on kick, where it helps you get that chest thump. I simply cannot imagine shelving off the kick below even 100hz, in my world.
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#1683630 - 08/07/05 12:58 PM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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miroslav
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Oh I agree...it is difficult to record every instrument "full range"...and then expect it all to automatically fit in, without any fighting for the same aural space.
I'll track full-range...mics almost always set flat…because I like to hear the mix develop a bit, and then make the final EQ decisions during the final mix...and not up front, or at a predetermined frequency point as BT suggests.
But of course...in the end, you do need to find the proper aural space for each track…and that will require some EQ shaping of each track.
As an example…
Even though bass guitar may occupy a lot of the low end...sometimes, I like to use the left hand piano line or the low strings of a rhythm guitar as a counterpoint to the bass...so I'll find room in the low end for both instruments. One a bit lower and the other a bit above…but both will have something going on below 120 Hz.
If I just rolled off everything below 120Hz on the piano or rhythm guitar...it would not be possible for me to do that.
I understand what BT is trying to suggest...but it's not as straightforward as just "HP everything at the 120Hz crossover point that isn't Kick or Bass"…IMO.
And you are right tripit...dance/trance can be manipulated more extreamly then other music styles.
It's more sound-design, than traditional music recording.
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#1683631 - 08/07/05 01:15 PM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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J.J. Blair
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Excellent point about dance music. A lot of those guys never have to even record their own sounds, save maybe a vocal.
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#1683632 - 08/07/05 05:20 PM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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d-dmusic_dup1
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Originally posted by miroslav:
First I'll solo each track and actually BOOST the EQ as I sweep through the frequencies. I do this to help me find the more annoying, resonant frequency range for that particular track...and when I find it…THAT'S where I will apply the actual cut/roll-off….either in the low or mid or high ends. I do this keeping in mind the general "good"/expected operating range of each particular track.
But, these resonant frequencies may also be frequencies where the unique character lives as well.
Maybe this is why a low shelf is preferred for some. (Didn't Bruce Sweden suggest this technique for everything except bass and kick over on Craig's forum?) Get rid of the mud and muck while retaining as much of the rest of the track as possible.
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#1683633 - 08/07/05 08:24 PM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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miroslav
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Originally posted by d-dmusic:
But, these resonant frequencies may also be frequencies where the unique character lives as well. 
But yes, there are those that actually define the character of the track...and they might even get highlighted to a degree.
I don't believe that the concept of shelving the low end for all tracks except the Kick and Bass is unique to BT and Bruce...
...though that's just ONE approach to getting a well balanced mix.
Removing masked and/or competing frequencies is nothing new or unusual...but, IMO...it should NOT be done based on pre-calculated crossover points, as an automatic process...but only when those masked or competing frequencies are actually causing some difficulty in the mix.
If you put all the players in one room, and they play together...all those frequencies would blend...and while removing say, the very low end of the piano, might in some way "open up" more space for the bass guitar, it can sound a bit unnatural if done methodically and extremely.
Throwing away one to make room for another may work...but I prefer to try and blend together as much of the full-range of all tracks as possible, before choosing to toss out stuff.
In a nutshell...there shouldn't be any set "rules" about how to EQ/manipulate audio tracks…BEFORE the tracking even begins...IMO.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1683634 - 05/03/06 09:52 PM
Re: BT says HP cut at 120 Hz
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dementedchord
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i didnt read the article so out of context who knows... although ive been using miro's aproach for years and has served me well i think... i wonder if the comment wasnt really an admission that theres just not that much going on below 120 (personally think more like 80) so if ya cant deal with room build up in that range squash the fuck out of it???? but i could be off here....
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