#1682895 - 07/10/05 01:36 AM
Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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bjorked
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Registered: 10/07/04
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I've been unsuccessfully trying to get a good bass drum sound out of my new studio kit but... it doesn't have a hole in the resonant head. Can this even be done or should I just get a head with a hole?
Give me some suggestions.
mike
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#1682896 - 07/10/05 08:23 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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wireline
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Placing the kick mic out a few feet from the resonator head will get you some great results...if leakage is a concern, use some blankets in like a little pup tent (see "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" to see this in application)...
You can also augment the whomp factor of a kick by placing a mic on the pedal side...just make sure the pedal itself isn't a rattling squeaky POS, and you should be good to go.
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#1682897 - 07/10/05 09:44 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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So, where did you leave the a hole? (Nevermind, bad joke....)
"Placing the kick mic out a few feet from the resonator head will get you some great results..."
This is the old standard.
"like a little pup tent..." I used to have a piece of Sonex rolled into a tube and road taped together. Stick it in front of the kick, stick the mic in the tube.
You might also try micing the kick from the beater side.
Could it be a 'placement in the room' issue? New kit might need a different location to sound good.
Also, what is under you? Maybe change the primary reflection material to change the tone.
Bill
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#1682898 - 07/10/05 06:47 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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bjorked
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thanks for the advice. I'll try placing the mic a few feet out and I have "standing in the shadows of motown" so I'll review that also. I don't think it's a room issue though because the kit sounds GOOD in the room - just weak kick drum sound when I have the mic close to the head.
mike
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#1682899 - 07/10/05 11:28 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by bjorked:
....the kit sounds GOOD in the room - just weak kick drum sound when I have the mic close to the head.
mike
Buddy of mine built a new studio, put the drum set in about the middle of the room. The room is square conrete block. The kick drum mic was in the center. It was cancelling out. Moved the while kit a couple of feet, problem solved.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1682900 - 07/10/05 11:35 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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younggunmn
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Registered: 05/22/05
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I'm certainly no expert on this, and it depends on what type of music you're recording, but this is what I've done with the kick drum, with results I'm reasonably happy with. Feel free to shoot me down if you think this is a bad way to do it.
1) Take off the second head completely.
2) Use a beater with a plastic or wood face (not felt) hitting the drum head.
3) Place one large-diaphragm dynamic mic near the head from the inside of the drum, offset a few inches from where the beater hits the other side, and angled a little.
4) Build a pup tent with heavy blankets over the open end of the drum, extending a foot or two outside, and place a second mic (I use a condeser) under there, so it's a couple feet from the inside head, facing more or less directly at it.
5) Either record the two signals to the same track or different ones. You'll need to experiment with the placement and/or switch the phase of one of the signals to make sure you don't have any phase cancellation effects.
That's worked reasonably well for me, with a little EQ added after the fact.
-Matt
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#1682901 - 07/10/05 11:47 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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gaotu
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Take off the outer head completely. That's what I do when I have a headless hole. The kick only has to sound good in the context of the mix. It doesn't necessarily have to sound the way you're used to when playing it. Actually, I almost always prefer a headless kick.
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#1682902 - 07/11/05 07:04 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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where02190
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Assuming you like what the kick sound slike, then proper mic choice and placement will give you that sound in your recording. Overhead and room mics play a huge key role in captureing the kick sound, so start with them, gettting the entire kit to sound good with just these mics. then add the kick mics. typically I'll use an AT4033 LDC, placed in the shell of an old 26" kick I have that has one head removed. I face the open end toward the resonant head of the kick, and get it as close as I can and still get the mic lead in. the mic itself is about 2/3 way into the 26" shell. I thn put a small packing blanket over the gap, draping it over the front of the 26" shell to dampen the front head on that if necessary.
I also place a beater head mic, usually a shure beta 56, so the null of the mic cancells as much bottom snare as possible. Typically I do not invert phase on either mic.
and that's usually all I use, no snare, hat or close mics. Wiht double headed kick with no hole, usually the kit has alot of overtones and resonance to it, and less mics means less phase issues, and capturing the big picture is the key, not a bunch of little ones.
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#1682903 - 07/11/05 09:08 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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bjorked
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I think we're on the same page, where. I defiantely agree that overhead/ room mics are the most important when capturing a drum kit's sound. Lately I've been experimenting with an ORTF setup with great results. I am intrigued by your drum in front of drum technique and might just give it a shot!
I strongly disagree with this business of taking the resonant head completely off - as where mentioned, having both heads on creates a lot of overtones and resonance that would be lost if the head was removed. Overtones are what make sound sound and tone tone! When you alter an instrument to an extent as great as this you are affecting not only this overall sound but also the way the musician plays. Being a very schooled musician myself, I am strongly aware of how one's playing changes when things sound askew to the musician.
I am also a strong proponent of being able to record without altering the instruments. Instruments are engineered a certain way for a reason (usually physics dictates this). I just think that the engineer should be able to capture the sound accurately using good mic technique rather than altering the instrument(s) drastically.
This is Just my Philosophy - take it or leave it.
mike
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#1682904 - 07/11/05 11:59 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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where02190
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Yep, if you like the tone, removing the front head will completely chage that tone. However if you don't like it, the taking it off might give you what you want. Personally I never liked the sound of a one headed kick. Might as well just use a sample IMHO.
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Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#1682905 - 07/12/05 12:42 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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MarkD
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I just put an LDC a couple of feet in front of the kick..... works great for me.
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#1682906 - 07/12/05 08:03 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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Lee Knight
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I realize this example is live but... have you guys noticed Max Wienberg's no hole kick and the way it's miced on Conan?
1" off the front head and at a 45 degree angle, right in the middle of a "1/4 pie slice".
It sounds good listening through my stereo hooked up to my TV.
Does anyone know what mic that is?
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#1682907 - 07/12/05 08:44 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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where02190
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I believe it is a Beyer M-88, but there are also back and inside mics. The inside mic is a Shure SM91, I and I think the back is an MS98.
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#1682908 - 07/12/05 11:01 AM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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Lee Knight
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Originally posted by where02190:
I believe it is a Beyer M-88, but there are also back and inside mics. The inside mic is a Shure SM91, I and I think the back is an MS98.
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#1682909 - 07/12/05 12:26 PM
Re: Micing a Bass Drum w/o a Hole?
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where02190
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Yes the M-88 is a dynamic, and onw of my fav kick mics. It's also a gret vocal mic. That particular one is the TG series (Tour Group).
Oh, and that sould read an SM98, not MS98.
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Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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