#1682845 - 07/08/05 08:15 AM
Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 252
Loc: Long Island, New York
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I would like to take my session drumming experiance to the digital age and try to get some side work by adding pro drum tracks to people's songs via email.
I saw a few ads from guys who say they can add drum tracks to a session from his own studio remotely.
First of all, what would be the most logical way to do this?
1. Recieve a whole wav file of the completed song, minus the drum track with a click? Then I lay down the drum track and they align my wav with the session?
2. They send me the whole session, and then I lay down the drum track and send the session back to them? Might be a problem if we use different DAW's. I know half the world uses PT, I use Nuendo.
I would also imagine that all tracks would have to be sent dry so they can add reverb accordingly to their mix when they recieve the track.
Any other logical solutions you guys can think of to make this a possibility??
I would offer a real kit and a Roland digital kit.
(the Roland would make life alot easier with a left and right out :-)
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#1682846 - 07/08/05 11:25 AM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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RicBassGuy
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Registered: 02/02/05
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Loc: Metro Detroit, MI
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How do they do it in the Collaboration Corner forum here? Maybe worth a quick search?
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#1682847 - 07/08/05 01:39 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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Loc: Long Island, New York
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Good idea Ric, I pasted it to their forum.
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#1682848 - 07/08/05 02:46 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Billster
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Loc: Wilmington, MA
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See August '05 Guitar player, page 130.
drumoverdubs.com
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#1682849 - 07/08/05 10:57 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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You could do it several ways, and IMO, you would probably attract more clients if you made it as flexible as possible - within reason of course. 
On the Roland, I'd offer both MIDI tracks AND audio tracks, and even if it means the extra work of recording the MIDI data, sticking it on to a seperate MIDI track for each instrument (kick, snare, stereo toms, hats, ride, cymbals, etc.) and then printing the audio to individual tracks with multiple "passes", I'd go that way. To be honest, as an engineer, I wouldn't really be too thrilled with the idea of just a stereo submix of the drum parts to work with... I'd rather work with the individual MIDI data and print my own sounds to individual tracks for better control and flexibility at mixdown.
As for audio, they could send you an stereo MP3 file, with the click hard panned to one side and a mono submix on the other. That could easily be done via FTP... and I'd definitely set up a password protected FTP site if I was doing this sort of business.
They could always FedEx you a DVD-R with the full session on it, and / or individual .WAV files. If you / they go that route, you want to make sure that all files for each track are single, consolodated waveforms, and not multiple files per track. Also, each file should start from "zero" on the timeline - even if the part doesn't come in until the outro. That way, you can easily import all the individual track files, drag them all the way to the left and everything is lined up.
That's obviously more work than doing the MP3's.  Remember, you don't NEED the full session - it's not like you're mixing the project - you just need something for a cue mix to play along to. The only potential downfall I can see to going with the stereo submix idea is that they might not give you a comfortable mix for you to play along with... in which case, you can always have them send you a different one with a few suggested "changes" to the submix.
After you import either of those (MP3 or stereo .WAV submix or full session) to Nuendo and track the drums, you can send them (via FTP) a submixed MP3 for reference and approval... but I'd put random "beeps" on it to prevent them from using that without paying you.
Speaking of payment, I would probably say "first one's free (or 1/2 price") as I was building up my rep / clientele. After that, 50% down / 50% upon approval of the MP3, and then you either FTP the individual drum tracks, or FedEx a disk to them. Keep the data backed up at your end until you know they have it and have had a chance to back up at their end... I'd probably put something about that ("will remain backed up for 2 weeks after MP3 approval - after that, it's your responsibility") into the agreement. And yes, I'd have some sort of written agreement (or online "by clicking 'yes' on this form, I hereby state that I have read and agree to all terms and conditions, blah, blah...) for the benefit of all.
Finally, I don't think I'd even really consider the idea if I didn't have a good sounding room and some good mics... people are going to expect good recordings. I'm not sure how good you are at that side of things, but we can probably help you with some tips and suggestions if you need help there.
Anyway, off the top of my head, that's probably how I'd approach it. Good luck with your new business, and please let us know how everything progresses. 
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#1682850 - 07/09/05 12:22 AM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
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First off you need some fairly serios gear, at least enough to do 8-12 tracks of drums, ie Protools or similiar pro DAW, along with some killer mics and preamps. add to that a great sounding room, and (assuming you've already got a great kit well tuned and killer chops on it) you'll then either need a great engineer or the chops as an engineer yourself to track that kit.
You then send the client separate tracks, minimum room mics, overheads, kick, snare, and ideally toms, hat, multiple kic and snare mics, etc., etc.
It's unlikely you'd get many takers who'd be happy with just a stereo mix.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#1682851 - 07/09/05 02:31 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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Registered: 04/12/03
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Loc: Long Island, New York
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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: You could do it several ways, and IMO, you would probably attract more clients if you made it as flexible as possible - within reason of course.
On the Roland, I'd offer both MIDI tracks AND audio tracks, and even if it means the extra work of recording the MIDI data, sticking it on to a seperate MIDI track for each instrument (kick, snare, stereo toms, hats, ride, cymbals, etc.) and then printing the audio to individual tracks with multiple "passes", I'd go that way. To be honest, as an engineer, I wouldn't really be too thrilled with the idea of just a stereo submix of the drum parts to work with... I'd rather work with the individual MIDI data and print my own sounds to individual tracks for better control and flexibility at mixdown.
files, drag them all the way to the left and everything is lined up.
I would just need a sure shot way to ensure that they would be able to time align all of the tracks to their DAW, even though we may be using different DAW's.
So basically, every track should have a count off and all start at the same time I suppose even though a certain track may contain only 3 cymbal crashes. I guess there will be many tracks of silence until a certain tom tom or cymbal comes in.
So, the client will basically have to drag all of the tracks to their starting point?
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#1682852 - 07/09/05 03:48 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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Originally posted by where02190:
First off you need some fairly serios gear, at least enough to do 8-12 tracks of drums, ie Protools or similiar pro DAW, along with some killer mics and preamps. add to that a great sounding room, and (assuming you've already got a great kit well tuned and killer chops on it) you'll then either need a great engineer or the chops as an engineer yourself to track that kit.
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#1682854 - 07/09/05 04:24 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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So, the client will basically have to drag all of the tracks to their starting point?
Correct. As long as you (and they) know what "zero" is, and your tracks (and theirs) all start off of "zero" as a common reference point, lining things up is quite easy.
So basically, every track should have a count off and all start at the same time I suppose even though a certain track may contain only 3 cymbal crashes. I guess there will be many tracks of silence until a certain tom tom or cymbal comes in.
Correct again. It's more data than if there were small files all over the place that only show up when that instrument "sounds", but it does make it very easy to align everything. And besides, in my experience, I'd say that nothing is ever really completely "silent" anyway... when you mic up a kit, everything bleeds into everything else... unless you use gates while tracking (which is something I definitely do NOT recommend). I would definitely take Where's suggestion of giving them as many mic options as possible. Inside and outside kick, individual snare and tom mics, overheads, hat, room mics - the more the better from an end user / client perspective. That means more flexibility at their end.
One suggestion, if I may be so bold: If your room, engineering chops, mics, preamps etc. are not up to full-on pro standards, then you may wish to partner with a local studio in your area.... they'd do the tracking (at a reduced rate to you, in exchange for the regular business that you'll be bringing them that they don't have to go out and hunt down on their own) and you provide the clients and the performances. Everyone wins.
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#1682855 - 07/09/05 06:09 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
One suggestion, if I may be so bold: If your room, engineering chops, mics, preamps etc. are not up to full-on pro standards, then you may wish to partner with a local studio in your area.... they'd do the tracking (at a reduced rate to you, in exchange for the regular business that you'll be bringing them that they don't have to go out and hunt down on their own) and you provide the clients and the performances. Everyone wins.
Hmmmm, just a thought though That Roland comes in pretty handy.
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#1682856 - 07/09/05 06:17 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Yeah, I have to admit I thought it was a pretty good idea too - that's why I mentioned it. As I said, everyone wins... and the quality should be even better, which should translate to more / happier clients. Just make sure you partner with a GOOD studio, and that they're good people to work with too.
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#1682857 - 07/09/05 06:24 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Funkwave
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I would just have to really think about the fee cut on this type of work. Although I'm providing the chops, They will be spending a decent amount of time on DAW applications after the track is printed.
I'm just used to getting my hourly fee and leaving.
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#1682858 - 07/09/05 06:32 PM
Re: Ok guys, how should I do this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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It shouldn't be a ton of post-production work. You play, they track it, they back the data up on to a couple od DVD-R's. bam, you're done. You could even do the pre-production for them - creating a session where the MP3 is already imported, and the tracks pre-created for the drums... they just copy the sesson to their HDD, track you, take their money and hand you a couple of disks.
If you're really serious about doing this, I'd get an Mbox so you can do that pre-production work on PT session files that (most) studios can quickly open. And get yourself a Oxford 911 chipset firewire drive and have them record straight to that... simple and portable. Bring it back home and back up the data, burn a disk and send that off to the client.
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