#1682639 - 06/29/05 09:36 PM
Phil, advice pls on mic, d/a, channel strip
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Sergievsky
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Registered: 03/26/00
Posts: 961
Loc: Manila, Philippines
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I need an upgrade on the sound capturing side of my studio. It's been mostly synths and samplers, but I now need to record some high quality vocals on a very powerful singer. You seem to have (had) a lot of the equipment I've used. I don't have much of a budget, but I could probably go about 3k.
Your review on the soundelux 250 was timely, since that was one of the things I was thinking about. The thing is, I still might have a couple of chinks in the studio armor. Like, I monitor with ADAM S3As, but at the moment I don't have a high end D/A. My options are monitoring straight out of my DP/Motu 2408mk2 (ok, not that great), my AW4416 (better), or my Digi002R. We'll be doing an entire album, so chances are I'll be using PT and the 002R for this project. Is the Benchmark that big of a step up or is it only marginal (as in, if on a budget it would be the first to get axed).
My only mic is a Rode NTK, and a couple of Oktava pencils. This singer has done dialogue, but not really sang into the NTK yet, but she actually sounded pretty good. I can borrow a U87ai if needed, but am wondering if spending my money on something like a Pendulum audio Quartet would be a better way to go. I'll be tracking drums at a different studio, so my main concern is the lead vocal, and acoustic guitar. Getting the 250 won't leave much for a high end pre, or a D/A.
Do you have any experience with the Apogee Mini-me? It seems like a good solution, since not only does that have a high-end pre (I assume, I haven't heard) but an A/D as well, and I assume it has a better clock than what my other gear has. There is also the Mini DAC.
Anyway, sorry for the many questions, but as an arranger/composer/MD, I find myself not having a choice any longer but to be an engineer/producer as well. And it's almost always with a killer deadline. The only way I can possibly meet these deadlines is to have the equipment. I know that applies to arranging, but I'm guessing it also applies to recording as well, since capturing a great vocal would be a lot easier/faster than having to rescue it with eq and such later on.
Oh, I was also thinking about the AEA R84. She's a female singer that can get rather loud though...I'll see if I can put up a small clip...somehow (I don't know much about web stuff).
And since I live overseas, trying this stuff out is pretty much out of the question. Anyway, thanks in advance for your and anyone elses input.
_________________________
Raul
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#1682640 - 06/30/05 02:40 PM
Re: Phil, advice pls on mic, d/a, channel strip
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Raul, I have to leave in a little bit (going to see Fountains Of Wayne on the Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson), but I'll definitely get back to you on this. Quick response: The E250 is one of the finest vocal mics I have ever used. Absolutely world class performance that makes the $3K list price look like a bargain. And yes, the Benchmark DAC is also a significant improvement over the converters in everything else you mentioned... it's a tough call insofar as what I'd put my money into in your case... let me get back to you after I think about it a bit, and when I have a bit more time. 
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#1682641 - 07/01/05 01:59 PM
Re: Phil, advice pls on mic, d/a, channel strip
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Okay, I have been thinking about this a bit...
The AEA is a wonderful sounding mic, but IMO, it's not what I'd reach for first for a wide variety of lead vocalists. If it works great on one singer, and that's all you need the mic for, then by all means consider it.
The Quartet will gobble up your entire budget too... and that's for the standard version, not the Mercenary Edition (which will be over your $3K budget by about $1,500).
The E250 has worked well - if not spectacularly - on every singer I've had in front of it. For me, that would be a very worthy candidate for your needs if you're looking for a great vocal mic.
Mic preamps - good ones - can be had for less than really good mics in many cases. The NTK is a very good mic, and a "budget bargain", and checking the singer on that mic would be my first priority. If she works well with it, then put your money into a Benchmark DAC and a decent mic preamp. I would imagine you could get a FMR RNP and RNC, a Benchmark DAC and still have enough left over for the AEA or a Soundelux U195...
Or, if you can afford to spend a bit more than your budget (maybe a couple / few hundred bucks), you could get the Soundelux E250 and a RNP, and then get the DAC later when you can save up for it. IMO, the D-A on the 002R doesn't suck - although the Benchmark is definitely better. But again, IMO, if you have to compromise, I don't think compromising on the input is the way to go...
Again, it's a tough call, but I'd check to see how she sounds on the NTK, and if that's not working for you (and to me, the NTK can be a bit too zingy for many female singers), then consider the E250 with an RNP. Or the Benchmark / RNP / RNC / U195 combo platter. 
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#1682642 - 07/03/05 01:09 AM
Re: Phil, advice pls on mic, d/a, channel strip
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Sergievsky
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Registered: 03/26/00
Posts: 961
Loc: Manila, Philippines
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Thanks Phil. There's so much gear out there I'm getting kinda overloaded with info. It makes it even more difficult when I can't hear the equipment personally and must purchase based mostly on articles and user group discussions. And it makes it even more impossible when you have to deal with different timbres of the human voice, where one supposedly awesome mic doesn't work well with a particular voice.
I would like to know what your take is on the overall effect of a well designed word clock generator to the studio. I believe you still have the lucid? I've read how huge a difference it makes, to it doesn't make a difference at all. I've read Fletcher's take on the Big Ben and how big a difference that makes to even the best converters, which makes me wonder how that will affect, say, the AW4416 or the DIGI002r's conversion.
I don't have golden ears, but the difference in quality between a MOTU interface and the Yamaha converters are clearly audible to me, which makes me wonder if a great vocal mic or preamp won't be so great after recording if that aspect of the chain isn't upgraded along with it. Of course it's best to upgrade everything, but since our currency is currently diving it's hard for me right now to increase the budget.
You said not to compromise the input. Is that where the biggest difference in quality is dictated, and that the ensuing upgrades in word clock and/or converters is marginal, relatively speaking? Let's say I buy a Big Ben, wouldn't that upgrade not just one aspect of the studio, but everything digitally hooked up (in my case I have 2 motu interfaces, a Digi002R, the Yamaha mixer/Daw, and another line mixer/A/D-converter(Firestation)? How much would that clock improve the onboard a/d and d/a converters in the 002? Maybe the onboard preamps are better than they really are but can't really hear it all that well because it isn't clocked properly.
Sorry for the novel, just thinking out loud I guess. It's just that this is going to affect any future upgrade paths of my studio. Oh, and one more food for thought, did you know that the Apogee D/A cards for the yamahas (8outs) are selling for $450 refurb at mercenary, and $500 at Apogee new? How about that option, or maybe even add the Big Ben to clock that. How much better would that be than the Benchmark.
See what I mean? These options are driving me nuts! 
_________________________
Raul
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