#1682607 - 06/29/05 12:27 AM
gear on or off?
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(RhythmInMind)
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i've just have this question bouncing around my head tonight.. Do you leave your gear on 24/7 or only when you use it? and why?
I work at a studio thats up and running 24/7 so the gear is on till it dies. stuff doesnt really seem to break any faster because of it. but with my own gear i don't really like the idea of letting it sit there and burn..
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#1682608 - 06/29/05 05:50 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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When my studio ran basically 24/7, the gear never went off. I would lose a computer power supply about once every three years. ($30 fix.) That was 80 rack spaces of gear, not counting three computers, three 8 track RTR machines, three DA-88s and a DA-38, and some video gear. Some of the vintage gear didn't even have power switches, but off of the top of my head, I don't remember what.
My home rig? I turn it on when I need it. It is wastful to let it consume electricity 24/7 when it might only get a few hours of use a week. If the stuff wasn't meant to be turned on and off, it wouldn't have switches.
Vintage gear may suffer from power inrush, as the pieces/parts are aging and are way past any expected life span of the pieces. But I don't know that cooking them all day helps, either. (Though at idle, they aren't exactly 'cooking'.)
Bill
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#1682609 - 06/29/05 07:59 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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Agree with Bill.
If you truly run a 24/7 operation...leave it on...
...otherwise...shut it off.
If I'm working on something "non-stop" for a few days...I might leave the gear on over night...
...but I just hate to see all that electricity running...and the AC to cool it off...and all those components staying real hot...etc.
The real old...true vintage gear...well, some of it may not like a lot of on/off...but the rest...turn it off.
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#1682610 - 06/29/05 08:28 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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The worst thing you can do to a piece of electronic equipment is turn it on. the heating and subsequent cooling of components deteriorates them far more than remaining on at a constant temperature. In addition, during humid weather, staying powered and at operating temperature helps prevent moisture buildup and corrosion.
AFA electrical consumption, unless you have an absure amount of tube gear, at idle an average analog/digital hyprid studio consumes no more electricity than a couple nightlights.
However, if like Bill, you're using the gear a few hours a week, then it would be no worse to power down. However, if, like us, youa re working on a daily basis, the gear will last longer without failure if you remain powered 24/7.
Computers are put to sleep when idle for long periods, spinning down the HDD's, and CRT monitors are turned off, as they ARE big power consumers. We reboot the computers at the top of the day. Other than that and the lights, everything is on 24/7/365 unless we are dark for an excessively long period, a week or more.
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#1682611 - 06/29/05 09:23 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by where02190:
.... We reboot the computers at the top of the day. ...
Bill
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#1682612 - 06/29/05 03:18 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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It's imperative to clear caches periodically, which is why we reboot daily.
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#1682613 - 06/29/05 05:03 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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Philip O'Keefe
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I stay pretty darned busy, but it's not a 24/7 studio. I do have to sleep occasionally.  So for the most part, I shut everything (or nearly everything) down when I'm done for the day (or usually, night). If I am planning on going back out to the studio in a few hours, I'll probably leave most of it on, but for longer time periods, it gets shut down. I notice a significant increase in utility costs if I leave everything on 24/7, but I'm a SCE (Edison) customer, and we get nailed pretty hard on the electrical bill, so I do what I can to conserve; not only for selfish / financial reasons, but also because IMO, it's a responsible thing to try to conserve energy.
As far as power cycling gear vs leaving it powered up all the time, I think it may have an effect on long term longevity, but a lot of stuff is just going to be replaced in a few / several years anyway, and most of that stuff has pretty high MTBF rates, so I don't worry about it too much. I've never done a full risk vs cost analysis on it, but I suspect that the cost of replacing or repairing the occasional item is more than offset by the energy savings in my case. Of course, your situation and YMMV.
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#1682614 - 06/29/05 06:27 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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zele
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About 5/7 hours a day >>unless someone is paying for "after hours." The lights stay on until the clients pocket book closes...
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#1682615 - 06/29/05 06:38 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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I agree Phil...if equipment is just sitting there unused for 8-10-12 hours...it's WASTING energy.
And let's face it...about the only gear in a studio that "goes idle"...are computer drives/monitors.
Your console won't...processors won't...power supplies for mics won't...heck, most of it doesn't change it's power consumption whether it's just sitting there or if you are passing signal through it...it's using the same amount of power...and that's wasted energy...and it also costs money....not to mention that your AC will be running overtime to keep the room cool from all that equipment being powered up and not getting used.
.I don't have a HUGE amount of gear...4 racks...maybe about 40 rack items plus the console, monitors, amps and computers.
But I'll tell you...even when I only have half of that stuff on during a busy week (and still I'm shutting down at night)...I always see the bump up in my electric bill during those busy periods.
So I just can't see leaving that stuff on for more that 2-3 hours of non-use.
Also, over the last 10-15 years, I can't recall the last piece of gear that shit the bed due to component failure as a result of heat or power up/down cycles...it's just not been my experience to lose gear that often...and I've been shutting at the end of sessions from day-one...going back 20+ years.
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#1682616 - 06/29/05 08:40 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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theblue1
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Well-designed gear, to my way of thinking, will last longer if it's on 24/7, rather than turned on and off on a daily basis.
That's because it's not changing temperature back and forth, which is one of the things that takes a toll -- particularly apparent in low-moving-part environments, where conventional wear-and-tear doesn't mask heat transition damage.
Now, obviously there's going to be some kind of break-even point as one turns on one's gear less and less frequently. What that might be for different gear would be difficult to estimate.
Of course, other criteria, such as power consumption, noise, ambient heat, etc, will factor in to any reasoned decision.
And, of course, the all-important proviso there was well-designed gear. Poorly designed gear that overheats in use or, worse, overheats just sitting there powered but inactive, is a special case.
I do have a few pieces of gear that not only have front panel power switches but which say to turn them off when not in use. I have a few pieces of gear which specifically say things like "while it will not harm the TBVLV-5000X MkIV to leave the power on for brief periods, we strongly recommend disconnecting the TBVLV-5000X MkIV while leaving it unattended for more than a few minutes" -- those items get special treatment.
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#1682617 - 06/29/05 10:00 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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bdbklyn
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There are two schools of thought on this.
1. As equipment ages, electrolytic capacitors dry out and are most likely to fail while turning the unit on.
2. They are going to fail anyway due to age.
Would you rather a peice of gear fail before a session starts, or during a session?
When I was at Atlantic Studios in NYC during the late '70's and early '80's,every piece of gear had to be shut of at night due to insurance issues. Every morning was a clusterf**ck.
But we had techs in lab coats.......
Computers should be rebooted every morning.
Bill Dooley
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#1682618 - 06/29/05 11:18 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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FYI, almost 6 years here of gear being on 24/7 (except for some tube replacement, and a few stretches of PM downtime/vacation) and nothing has failed.
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#1682619 - 06/30/05 01:20 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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(RhythmInMind)
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thanks for the replies.. i was curious how people felt about this..
the studio i'm at has been up for 10+ years 24/7. We have allot of mechanical things wear out. transports and whatnot. but very few component.. mostly power supplies, caps, and drives..
heat seems to be the main killer... this studio has outgrown it's pants. the machine rooms and racks are full. so sometimes we have to cram rackgear without proper spacing. we have had some overheating issues. even in the heavily AC'd machine rooms. but it's hard to tell whats do to age or heat.. i guess both..
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#1682620 - 06/30/05 08:51 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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Well heck...I think most of us are saying the same thing here.
If you are talking about a full-tilt commercial studio that practically runs 24/7...then leave the gear on 24/7.
But if you are talking about a project studio...that gets used evenings...weekends...or only when sessions are booked...then it's kinda' crazy (IMO) to have everything glowing away 24/7 if you only use it for 4-5 hours per day...or 2-3 days out of the week...right?
But hey...if you can afford the electric bills (audio gear PLUS your AC to cool things)...and you don't feel like you are wasting precious energy, especially during these hot summer months when ALL the grids are being pushed to the max...
...then ignore your conscience and let it burn even when it is NOT getting any use... :rolleyes:
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#1682621 - 06/30/05 09:19 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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If your project studio consists of a computer and a few hardware items, it costs pennies a day in electricity to run.
All our control room electronics (sans CRT monitors) pull under 5 watts at idle, like running a nightlight.
While I agree that if you only use it a few hours a week, then turn it on when you need it. However if you use it daily, it may be more cost effective to keep it running.
The big consumer of power are crt monitors and tube units, however many of todays "tube" units are nothing more than solid state devices with a single tube, drawing very little more than anything else.
IMHO there's little cost advantage either way for the daily hobbiest home studio.
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#1682622 - 06/30/05 01:09 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by where02190:
If your project studio consists of a computer and a few hardware items, it costs pennies a day in electricity to run.
...but my project studio is WELL beyond that, as I roughly outlined in my earlier post. 
I've added up the total power consumption of all my gear...that's why I run 2 dedicated 20A lines just for the racks...plus another 20A line for the room outlets (guitar amps, organ, keys, etc).
And a fourth line for lights.
If I turned on ALL my studio gear (which I rarely need to)...I would be pulling about 60% of those 60A...
...which ain't pennies/day! 
Heck...just the three sets of monitor amps, plus the guitar/keyboard amps suck up some serious wattage.
Then the console...2-3 computers, dual 21" monitors...and already it's costing a lot more than pennies!
Then add all the rack gear! 
Instead...
If I'm just tracking one or two things...I may only have the recorder, console and preamps turned on for that session...which to me makes more sense, rather then also having all that other gear on for no reason, and then having to crank up the AC to keep cool things down. :-(
When I'm mixing...that's when I have the most gear on...but even then...a good 30%-40% of my gear is NOT being used...so it's not on.
I guess my feeling is that if a piece of gear is going to fail...it will fail.
I've seen gear fail even when it was just idling/running.
The components that dry out and deteriorate with age...well, they probably need replacing even BEFORE they crap out on power-up.
As I said...I just don't recall a whole lot of gear failing over the last 20 years (I just jinxed myself )...
...and I've been turning things on/off for all that time.
But do what feels right...and seems the most efficient. 
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#1682623 - 06/30/05 01:21 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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Sean Eldon
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we've got about 50 items in the racks, 3 guitar amps, one bass amp, 2 computers, 2 20" monitors, air conditioner, refridgerator, microwave, coffee machine, and now an Otari 1/4inch 2 track that's a little bigger than the fridge. we're in the basement of a shopping strip. if all of our equipment is turned on at one time, the lights in a tattoo shop above us dim down to about half power. they like us to only turn things on if we're using it.
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#1682624 - 06/30/05 01:32 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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Miro, if you put an amp meter on the line you'll find you're pulling a very small fraction of what you've added up from the units specs, as these are worse case scenarios.
IF this were the case I'd need about 100amps going to my control room, but at full bore, with everything running as max as I could stand it, including all the tube pres, I peaked at under 25 amps. At idle, like I said, with the CRT's off, it draws under 5 watts, less than a nightlight.
Theory and reality once again being worlds apart.
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#1682625 - 06/30/05 01:43 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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(RhythmInMind)
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i had 3 CRT's in my studio just switching them to LCD's made a great diff is heat, elec, and hopefully radiation to my head..
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#1682626 - 06/30/05 01:54 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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theblue1
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Originally posted by (RhythmInMind):
i had 3 CRT's in my studio just switching them to LCD's made a great diff is heat, elec, and hopefully radiation to my head..
The problem with soundproofing, of course, is that it tends to cut off natural circulation making heat build up a real pain. (My buddy's dad used to put forced air heat/AC in studios and they have all kinds of cool tricks to keep the noise from the forced air to a minimum, including ducting with bends instead of corners to cut down on turbulence. Some friends of mine put forced air in their home and it sounds like a jet engine in the attic when it comes on. Uh... where's my coffee?)
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#1682627 - 06/30/05 02:15 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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Philip O'Keefe
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I think the reality lies somewhere between what each of you is saying.
I have not run a meter on the line, but I have tried it both ways and watched the difference in the electric bills. In the hot summer months, if I have everything going 24/7, my bills run in the $750-900 range. I'm sure a lot of that is due to the air conditioning required to keep things at a reasonable temperature. I have a fairly new unit, and it's fairly energy efficient, but it still has to work harder to keep the place cool when all the gear is running... and I don't have all THAT much stuff. If I turn everything off and set the AC to a higher temp (about 85) when I finish for the day (with the typical "day" running about 10-12 hours on average), and power it all back up and drop the AC thermostat back down to 75 about an hour before the next session, I find the electric bill drops to the $500-650 range... a significant difference. Room lighting was shut down in both cases when the studio was unoccupied, so that wasn't a factor.
The big power draws are probably CRT monitors, power amps and any tube gear... and if you have a large console, toss that in too. I have a 400W power supply in my main DAW machine, but like everything else, that's not the "typical" power requirement for the device, especially when it is running at "idle"... but it DOES add up when you leave it on... at least from what my Edison bills tell me. And saving $250-300 per month on energy bills in the summer (obviously less in the winter) seems like more than enough to offset the cost of replacing some caps and computer power supplies in the rare occasions when that has to be done. I really don't experience a lot of gear failures, although I have toasted a couple of computer power supplies over the years. Was that due to the added stress of daily power cycling? Was the mixer power supply that fried on me due to the fact that it was left on (all warm and toasty) 24/7 (which it was, because cycling it was a PITA), or was it going to die either way? I honestly don't know... but I do know that the electric bill cost savings IN MY CASE make turning off gear when not in use a good idea. I would imagine that the costs and benefits of 24/7 operation vs power cycling will vary in a case by case basis, depending on the specific gear, amount of use, location of, and the energy prices that each studio has to deal with.
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#1682628 - 06/30/05 03:01 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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AC is a huge power comsumer. In the summer months here, it triples my bill. Like Phil, the AC units are new and very efficient.
i've experimented with a month of power down anc comparing the costs, and the difference was minimal, less than the cost of a meal at a modest restaurant, and surely less than the cost of repairing pretty much anything.
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#1682629 - 06/30/05 03:46 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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I've see similar differences in my electric bill as Phil has.
Yeah...OK...I agree that rated power consumption is not always the same as actual….but those specs are there so that you can have a safe margin.
But...forgetting the computers/monitors...which are the ONLY things that I know of that will go into a low-power idle mode...and I guess also the power amps for your studio monitors, tend to “idle” without signal…
...but your console is gonna’ use about the same power if you pass signal or not.
Same thing goes for a lot of the FX processors...mic PS's...pre's...etc.
So...you will use a noticeable amount of additional electric if you leave 40 pieces of rack gear turned on for 24/7...VS... for only 20-30 hours of actual use.
Nick...I don't see how you can go from 25amps at full-tilt to only 5 watts of consumption at "idle".
I mean...OK...so your computer and monitor idle down...but what's the rest of your gear doing...it doesn’t have an idle mode...???
Shit...I got some processors…that even just sitting there...you could cook eggs on the case, right above the power supply!!!
And those things are sucking the same power...signal or no signal.
Again...I've seen the NOTICABLE differences in my electric bill...which is not theory...but reality.
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#1682630 - 06/30/05 07:24 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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CRT monitors (3 of them) are off, which are huge power suckers, tube pres (12 of them) at idle don't draw squat compared to full bore, along with Marshall,Mesa, Fender and Ampeg tube amps, same with the JBL monitors.
Everything has an idle mode. The difference in current draw may be small, but it adds up.
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#1682631 - 06/30/05 07:43 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
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Well...it just so happens that all the items you mentioned above...are tube based, or they are power amps...and yeah...I already stated that those things will consume more juice when passing full signals….VS no-singal.
But...take all the other gear in your studio...the non-tube, non-power amp stuff...
...and really...the difference in power consumption between signal and no-signal is miniscule, if non-existent.
So…a powered up solid-state and/or digital device is going to eat up just about as much juice sitting there doing nothing as it does when passing a signal...
...and looking at my racks...I got a lot of that kind of gear too.
I don't doubt you that you can "idle down" a good amount of your gear for less power draw...
...but then, I'm not making it up either, when I say that I HAVE seen a noticeable difference in my electric bill when I have a lot of that gear powered up...VS...turned off.
And once again...I have to point out that even if the electric consumption/cost differences are considered minor by some of you folks...you really ARE consuming electricity...and if it's not doing anything more than just keeping a lot of gear in idle mode for hours and hours...or days...
...you ARE wasting precious energy.
Heck...even a single forgotten light bulb, left burning all day long...is wasting energy.
I bet those people that don't care, are also the ones that drive those gas-guzzling SUV's, while at the same time bitching about our dependence on foreign oil... :rolleyes:
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#1682632 - 06/30/05 10:16 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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DC
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I leave rack gear on. I'll bet the whole bunch of my stuff eats about the same as a light bulb at best. I turn off tube and moving part stuff. Anything with tubes or fans and of course the computer monitor gets turned off.
Another consideration; Craig had an article ages ago about if you turn a piece of rack gear with a wall wart off while the wart is still receiving power, it wears out the wart. I've got an RNC, a Midiverb II and some Roland stuff that still uses warts so I just leave them on.
And now for something completely different but still AC saving; I just replaced most light bulbs in the house with the flourescent variety. The new ones aren't all stark like they used to be. The home studio and lamps where I read are still incandescent though.
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#1682633 - 06/30/05 10:17 PM
Re: gear on or off?
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where02190
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OK Miro you shut your gear off and I'll do what I want.
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Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#1682635 - 07/01/05 03:20 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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Philip O'Keefe
10k Club
Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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I leave rack gear on. I'll bet the whole bunch of my stuff eats about the same as a light bulb at best.
Well, it depends on what you're running. Some rack gear - especially stuff that uses external wall warts, draws very little power... a few watts. And if that's what you have (it should say on the AC adapter, or on the back panel of mains powered gear), then yes, several such devices would equal a 60 watt bulb. Other things might take considerably more... and even a 9 watt device is taking some power, and if you have enough of them going, it does add up.
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#1682636 - 07/01/05 07:42 AM
Re: gear on or off?
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 11867
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
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Here's a couple more considerations...
I'm sure that most of the big studios probably have very high-end AC power systems...
...but how about the rest?
In my studio, I run a couple of Juice Goose Omega 20 power conditioners/regulators/protectors...each one delivering 20A of clean/steady/safe juice, with secondary surge/power strips running of them...
...but during electrical outages, my gear will still be affected...it will still blink on/off if there are strong surges/outages...and when all the studio gear is on,…heck, that's one massive BLINK!!!
I have way too much gear to have it all on UPS...but I do have all my computers on them.
A few times I thought about finding an electric switch that when power was lost, it would trigger the switch and leave it on an open state…that way, when the power surged back on…the studio gear would not fire up again…and I could then manually shut each piece down, and then cycle everything back on, one by one.
So if I left all that gear on 24/7...and I'm in bed sleeping...our out somewhere...
...during serious brownout/blackout times...that gear is on a possible roller-coaster ride.
When I'm in the studio...and there is a nasty storm happening...I always shut down!
Also...when you are away from your studio...and everything is just glowing away for hours and hours...
...and then something DOES fail...and maybe ignite...!!!...:eek...
...well, it's obvious that if you are there, you would deal with it.
But...if you leave it on all night while you are sleeping, or away for the entire day...
...who's going to put out the fire, or make the 911 call...???
Those are just a couple of more reasons why I do not leave gear on when I am not in the studio to actually use it.
But as Nick pointed out...you can do what you want!
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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