#1682593 - 06/28/05 07:33 PM
Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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Sir Basil
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Registered: 10/28/01
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Yes, another such thread. I'm surrendering and making a post. I'm kind of under the weather and Search has become a bitter enemy to me tonight.
My benefactor is all hot to get a project studio going with me. I'm all hot for it too, but just beginning, I want to stretch the pennies as far as they'll go. I'm rather clueless on mics though, so I'd appreciate it if friendly souls would shoot down all the bad ideas and encourage the good ones, along with whatever lovely suggestions you have. This will be kind of an "everything" studio, doing stuff from my proggy space rock to acoustic to possibly metal, for whoever wanders in. Right now - let the cringing begin - I have a Behringer 32 channel mixer, along with an Allen&Heath CMC16. No compressors, no mic pre's or anything. Recording right now to a Pro Tools 001 LE. I don't know what the budget is going to be later, I just know it'll be more than $8000 I have to play with now. I'll be lobbying for a Ghost console or something and a Digi002 but we'll see.
I'm looking to build from some rather cheap mics on up, and going all non-dynamic. I'd like a pair each of tube mics and ribbons if possible, as well as a handful of all around utility batters. I'd like to be able to record a reasonably endowed drum kit and whatever I can at the same time, guitar amps, Leslie, vox, whatever. This is what I'm considering so far. Ready aim fire...
Everything in the Studio Projects line
ADK up to the TC tube mic
CAD mics from the GXL1200 up to the M9 Tube Large Diaphragm Mic
Blue Kickball
Rode NTK, NT5
Shure KSM27
E/V RE-20
Audix CX-111, CX-112, ADX50, Fusion15, etc
Many Marshall Electronics MXL603s - they have to be at least as good as the SM57, right? - as well as the rest of the MXL mics
Nady RSM-2, APEX 210 and Electro-Harmonix EH-R1 Ribbon Mics
FMR RNC Stereo Compressor(s)
StudioProjects VTB-1 Tube Drive Mic Preamp
SM Pro Audio TB202 2-Channel Tube Microphone Preamp/Compressor
SM Pro Audio OC-8 Multichannel Optical Compressor (mostly for drum riding)
I think that's the short list. I was thinking of getting 8-12 of the MXL603s to use as drum and utility mics, with a couple of good condensers or even the tubes or ribbons to use as overheads. I read the raves of the ADKs so I'm sold on them, so how do the budget ADKs hold up compared to something like the Studio Projects? Anything on the list make you want to eat glass?
Phil, I think it would be a handsome idea if you or someone could gather some of the best threads and make a sticky linking to them in the many categories this place covers. I have to say that this place is a goldmine of info, but darn the threads go all over the place and sometimes go right to limbo.
I really can't complain tho, the place is the bees' knees, and you're a fantastic captain. 
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#1682594 - 06/28/05 07:59 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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miroslav
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Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 11866
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
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Don't buy real low-end/cheap mics...they will only be collecting dust as soon as you get better ones...and you WILL want to get better ones.
Not talking about $2k - $3k mics...just don't fall for those really cheap condensers.
But a few Shure 57's...Sennheiser e609's...they are cheap and good dynamic mics.
I say go for the ADK stuff...Vienna, Hamburg, TC, TL...and you will NOT regret having at least one TT/CE.
I have the TT/CE...and it's a fantastic mic...vocals shine with it!!!
AT makes some nice mics...but stay with the 40's series.
Get 1-2 expensive comndensers and a couple of 57's/e609s...and you will be able to cover a lot with those 3-5 mics.
Then...add others, one by one as needed.
Oh...don't get the 8-12 low-end mics for drums.
Learn how to get a good drum kit with just 4 mics.
2 overheads...1 Snare and 1 Kick.
Then...if your still feel you want to complicate your life and your mix...put more mics on the kit...but I don't think you will need to.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1682595 - 06/28/05 08:09 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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miroslav
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Actually...the more I think about it...if you are tight for cash right now...
Get a matched pair of ADK Hamburgs...and a couple of Shure 57's or Sennheiser e609's...
...and with those four mics...you will have a lot covered.
Hamburgs as overheads, vocals, etc...
...the other two for Snare/Kick/guitars.
You can also add a Senn e602 for the Kick and Bass guitar! 
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1682596 - 06/28/05 09:00 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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Sir Basil
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Registered: 10/28/01
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I appreciate the response Miroslav, and your posts were some that nudged me into checking out the ADKs. But isn't there a decent condenser like an SM57? I'd rather not get into the headaches of "aargh, phantom power on dynamics channels," especially since condensers by and large give a much better recording. Having all condenser/tube/ribbons would make life much simpler.
Oh, and would you say to keep away from ribbons entirely until I can budget for something $1000 or more?
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#1682599 - 06/28/05 10:16 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
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Learn to get a great drum sound with ONE mic.....
NTK's are fantastic, IMHO best mic under $1000.
Sennheiser e609 silver series, best $99 you can spend.
I've never used anything Behringer that was worth even 1/2 what it cost. 4th rate knockoff chinese junk.
A pair of AKG 414's are worth their weight in gold...vocals, acoustic or electric gtrs, percussion, drum overheads, anything that makes sound they will do it justice.
Audio Technica 4041's are fantastic low budget SDC.
FMR RNC's are great budget pres.
Used TL Audio PA-2's and C-1's are superb bargins.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#1682600 - 06/29/05 12:12 AM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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offramp
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Registered: 10/31/00
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The Studio Projects mics that I've demo'd have sounded like piercing, brittle crap.
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I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#1682601 - 07/02/05 01:21 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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Sir Basil
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Registered: 10/28/01
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http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/jazzooo-gallery.htm
What say ye? Do quality pre's like the Millenia make everything sound good?
Oh, and happy 4th. I'm heading off for weekend fun blowing stuff up real good, and I hope you guys are too.
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#1682602 - 07/02/05 02:33 PM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Phil, I think it would be a handsome idea if you or someone could gather some of the best threads and make a sticky linking to them in the many categories this place covers. I have to say that this place is a goldmine of info, but darn the threads go all over the place and sometimes go right to limbo.
That's a good idea... it would take some work / searching / organizing, but a "FAQ" sticky would probably be a good idea. I'll take that under advisement. 
What say ye? Do quality pre's like the Millenia make everything sound good?
Only if the sound source sounds great and the engineer does their part. 
Now, as to your questions... I would second the idea of not spending your money on junk that you'll just have to replace later or that will sit idle when you have better stuff available.
Mic locker? Well for one thing...
I'm looking to build from some rather cheap mics on up, and going all non-dynamic. I'd like a pair each of tube mics and ribbons if possible, as well as a handful of all around utility batters.
...I would reconsider the "no dynamic mics" idea. While good condensers and ribbons are great to have, you will probably want at least a few good dynamics.
Shure SM57's are a workhorse, and with good reason. And they're inexpensive too.
Sennheiser e609's are nearly as inexpensive, and also can come in handy.
Audix is currently making some of my favorite dynamics. I like the i5's a lot, and actually prefer them over SM57's in a lot of applications - great on snare drums and guitar cabinets. I also love the Audix D2's on toms and guitar amps.
Gotta have an E/V RE20... IMO, no mic locker is complete without one.
I also really like the Yamaha Subkick. I used to use the RE20 inside the kick and a LD condenser mic out in front, but I prefer the Subkick instead. Great bottom end punch.
IMO, you should stay away from drum kit "prepacks". Most of them use lower line mics from whatever manufacturer. Instead, buy several at once, and pick and choose the individual mics... and tell the dealer you want a discount for buying a bunch of stuff at once.
For ribbons on a budget, I don't know that I would go with the cheaper models from China... I have not really tried them in depth yet, and they may be fine, but for me, as of this date, good ribbons start with the Beyer M160 (about $550 - 600 new) and go up in price from there. The M160 is a great overhead mic, and also works well on guitar cabs and is my favorite sax mic.
We've had several small diaphragm condenser mic threads lately, and you should be able to find those on page one or page two of the forum at the moment... in short, the AudioTechnica AT4041, Oktava MC012 (Russian, not Chineese - IOW, DO NOT get them at Gtr Ctr), Groove Tubes GT33, and several others are good "budget friendly" options.
Large diaphragm condensers? I'm a big fan of Soundelux... but that's gonna cost you. But IMO, well worth the money. The U195 is fairly inexpensive (by Soundelux standards) and a pair of those can cover a lot of ground. Ditto that for the AKG C414. I personally prefer the older models (I have not tried the latest series, so no comment there) such as the 414EB and 414EB P48. A used pair of P48's will probably cost about a grand to $1,200 in good shape. AT4050's are a good workhorse mic too. I also like the AT4047's, but I've never been as big a fan of the 4033's. NTK's are also very good mics, and a "budget bargain" at around $400, but IMO, it wouldn't make the best choice as your "only" vocal mic... it works great on some singers, but on others (particularly female singers) it can be too zippy sounding.
As far as outboard preamps and compressors, I think that on a budget, it's really hard to top the FMR RNP (2 channel preamp) and RNC (stereo - not dual mono - compressor). Other things that are inexpensive but still can be useful IMO include the Joemeek ThreeQ, Presonus MP20 (especially when fitted with Jensen transformers and 627 opamps) and possibly the Groove Tubes Brick - but I have not tested that one yet (uh hmmm... oh Jeff... ).
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#1682604 - 07/03/05 05:17 AM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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Sean Eldon
Senior Member
Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 462
Loc: Long Island
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Groove Tubes' The Brick is one of the coolest little things money can buy as far as a studio goes. UNBELIEVABLE bass DI box, and if your budget is tight, it'll even be a whole lot better than stock preamps on an interface or a mixer for doing vocals and whatnot. Really really good buy at under 500 bucks.
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#1682605 - 07/03/05 06:50 AM
Re: Budget studio mic and otherwise purchasing help
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where02190
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
[qb]NTK's are also very good mics, and a "budget bargain" at around $400, but IMO, it wouldn't make the best choice as your "only" vocal mic... it works great on some singers, but on others (particularly female singers) it can be too zippy sounding.
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Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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