#1682489 - 06/26/05 06:39 PM
miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Kansas City
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Here's one for the laugh track, I'm sure:
I seem congenitally unable to get decent acoustic guitar tone with mics (any mic, mind you) placed in the "traditional" spots. I'm using a Martin D-28, which may be part of the problem, but when I place the mics in the usual spots (12 or 14th fret) and toward the bridge or even X-Y centered on the 12th fret, I get a VERY ridiculously booming sound. . . it is all bass, and I hate bassy acoustics. (I finger pick only by the way.) It makes little difference how close the guitar is to the microphone, either.
Utterly failing with convention, here's what I've been doing:
I place the mic on the 5th fret (I obviously don't move up and down on the neck very much, do I?) which gives me the wonderful treble tone and slight bell-like ring I love, but even there I have to cut the stuffings out of the bass and some of the low mids. (Typical settings: bass 18 dB down, wide Q, centered on 30 Hz and the low mids about 5 dB down, wide Q, centered on about 400 Hz.)
Now, the result is an incredible tonality, rich with definition and clarity, classic acoustic guitar, in my opinion. It sounds positively great to my uninitiated ears.
But inquiring minds still want to know: Why am I failing with the standard techniques? And does anyone else have this problem or use this mic technique?
Thanks much.
Steve
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#1682490 - 06/26/05 06:54 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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Matt.Hepworth
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2972
Loc: Riverdale, UT
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My first question would be how new are the strings? D-28's are incredibly popular, but they are a bit boomy tone-wise. The first thing I'd try is setting the soundhole side mic in the usual position, but then rotate it so that it points at the trus rod in the soundhole, or even at the neck. This will eliminate the boom, but keep the tone close to the soundhole tone.
However, on large guitars I prefer a spaced pair of LDC's or LDTube mics. Come back about 3-4 feet and be 4 feet apart. Another method is to bring the soundhole side mic in from behind and above the player's shoulder aiming at the soundhole. This can often give a truer picture of what the player is hearing.
Another dirty trick that I use often is to take one mic and move it around ANYWHERE on the guitar. Once it sounds good, I'll pan it about 50% to one side. Then I'll pan a second mic 50% to the opposite side and move it around ANYWHERE until it sounds even better. Then simply adjust the two faders afterward for the perfect balance.
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No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
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#1682491 - 06/26/05 07:10 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Kansas City
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I typically have not been doing stereo miking. . . doing, instead, track doubling from two passses (since, apparently, my playing isn't so machine-like to allow my dual monos to be confused with true mono!).
I'm going to give the old over the shoulder technique a try (I think I did that once before) and see what happens. It would sure be a heck of a lot easier if I had another person in the room with me. . . all this setting up, testing, moving, setting up, moving, etc. really gets old in a hurry. On the bright side, I suppose that once I find the ideal positions, I'll have the ideal positions.
This lack of orthodoxy (incompetence?) on my behalf is by no means unusual me. I am convinced that I'm doing something with my electric guitar that no one else in the history of the world has ever tried before, and yet I like my hot guitar sound every bit as well as any I've ever heard.
Apparently I am a believer in the "if it sounds good, it IS good" philosophy. My college students (who know me as a blood and guts traditionalist) wouldn't believe it.
:-)
Thanks, Matt. . .
Steve
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#1682492 - 06/26/05 08:40 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Have you tried putting a mic boomed over your right shoulder, aimed down at the guitar, to hear what your ear hears? (Suggestion, whenever you mic anything, move around until it sounds good, and put the mic there.)
I have never been able to get any kind of a usable sound when pointing a mic at a soundhole. I usually put a mic a little lower and behind the bridge. Just what works for me.
And: if you have found the position in your room that works for you, use it.
Plus, consider the position that you are using in the room. Perhaps the boominess is coming from your location in the room.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1682493 - 06/26/05 09:23 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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umkcprof
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Loc: Kansas City
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Thanks much, Bill. . .
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#1682494 - 06/26/05 09:31 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
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Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
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First off, where are you aiming the mic? If it's anywhere near pointing toward the sound hole, then you will get a boomy sound.
Try a lighter gauge string if you feel it is the guitar.
The room can play a major factor as well.
If your record a different guitar, or even your voice though this same setup, is it also boomy? If so, you may have some issues with mics or preamps losing high end.
Also, don't place the mics too close, 18-24" minimum distance.
You're not getting 30Hz from the guitar, that would be something in the room. 400hz cuts are not uncommon for acoustic guitars.
You may also have phasing issues, have you tried inverting phase on one channel(if micing in stereo)?
Typically I stereo mic an acoustic with a pair of 414's in cardiod. Both mics have the HP filters at 150hz. (Occasionally I'll put the bridge one at 75 if the guitar is weak or I'm looking for a very warm sound.)
One mic pointing where the body meets the neck, placed below the neck around the 12th fret, the other pointing at the bottom of the body 1/2 way between the bottom of the bridge and the edge of the sound hole, placed just below the bridge. Both mics usually 2' or more away from the guitar. Pan them hard L/R.
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#1682495 - 06/26/05 11:33 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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umkcprof
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More great tips to try. . .
Thanks much!
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#1682496 - 06/27/05 04:07 AM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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As others have noted, position within the room is also important. Stay out of corners. Is this the infamous 10 X 10 X 10' room? If so, move into another room and try recording in there and see if it sounds a bit better. BTW, did you get a Frontier Design Tranzport remote yet? You're a perfect potential owner for one of those.  You'll want to spring for the extra $20 to get a mic stand adapter for it too.
Try engaging the high pass filters on your mics... nothing really lives down that low on an acoustic guitar anyway, so you might as well nuke it. Keep the mics away from, and not pointing directly at that soundhole - that's the boomiest spot on most acoustic guitars. The HD28 is a rosewood bodied guitar and they have more bass than a mahogany bodied guitar (which is why a lot of fingerstyle players lean towards mahogany bodies)... not that you can't fingerpick on a '28, but you need to be aware of the fact that they have more bass and adapt to deal with that.
For placement, try the over the shoulder trick, the 14th fret, the area just behind the bridge... all sorts of different possible positions might work. You can space a pair of mics at various locations, or use an XY stereo pair out in front to capture it. Where's suggestion regarding distance is a good one, but in a small, dead room with less than ideal dimensions, you might want to be careful about moving too far away... I'd probably try about a foot to start with, maybe out to 18"... it's really about listening to it and putting the mics where it sounds good, as Bill said. You're trying to get far enough back that you capture the whole guitar and so that proximity effect doesn't cause extra bass buildup, but not so far that the room acoustics come across too heavily on the recording and / or that you have to crank the snot (technical term  ) out of your mic preamps to get a decent recording level. Going back to what Bill said, if you have a friend who can play a bit of guitar, have them play for a while in different spots in the room and walk around and listen. When you find a spot where it sounds good, stick a mic there. IOW, use your ears as location points for mics. When you move your ear to a spot where the guitar sounds particularly good to you, stick a mic there. Then, while they're playing, actually stick the mics up and do a couple of test recordings and make sure you're getting "that sound" on tape (yeah, I know, but "disk" just doesn't roll off the tongue as well for an old timer like me ). All of that's a lot easier when you're not tied down to the chair and actually playing yourself, so if you can get a friend to help, then make a note of the spots, you'll be better prepared for when you need to do it solo.
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#1682497 - 06/27/05 12:15 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Kansas City
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Thanks, Phil. . . as you note, this playing while simultaneously moving a microphone around the room business is difficult to say the least. I shall have a friend come over and do the playing for me. . .
As for the Frontier. . . I have a foot switch and when I use the "auto-punch" feature it automatically "rewinds" (you're right. . . these tape terms will be with us forever and for good reason) at the end of the punch-out. . .
Thanks!
Steve
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#1682498 - 06/27/05 01:53 PM
Re: miking acoustic guitar. . . how nuts is this?
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Lee Knight
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Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1077
Loc: Encinitas,CA,UNITED STATES
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Have you tried an omni? The only omni I have is the crappy Behringer test omni. When I had a situation where my regular micing setup for acoustic didn't fly with a certain guitar, I tried the crap omni. To my suprise it sounded great. I could get in real close for a very interesting vibe, without any boom.
BTW, I usually place the mics out about 1.5' to 2'. With the omni I got in around 4"!?!?! Hey... if it sounds good...
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