#1682128 - 06/17/05 03:28 PM
Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Keyplayer
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Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
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I'm finally back to work on my new rigg and I got Universal Audio's ULTRA PAK when I built the Dual Xeon PC. So now I'm trying it out on a guitar track and so far, I've been less than thrilled. I got more mileage out of the Roland Guitar Amp Sims on my 1680.
Since I'm a keyboardist 1st and just barely an acoustic guitarist 2nd. I thought I'd ask those of you with much more experience what the secret was for getting some good results out of this plugin?
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#1682129 - 06/17/05 03:56 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Are you trying to use it with an acoustic guitar, or an electric?
To me, the way to get good acoustic sounds is with a mic or a pair of mics - I've rarely ever heard direct acoustic sounds that were tolerable, yet alone "satisfying" when they were recorded direct.
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#1682130 - 06/17/05 07:02 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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KenElevenShadows
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An easy-to-get, pleasing sound with acoustic guitars are two small diaphragm condensers in x-y about 2-3 feet back from the guitar, one aiming at the bridge and the other at where the neck meets the body of the guitar. If using one microphone, aiming the mic perpendicular to where the neck meets the body of the guitar is a good basic starting position. There are many more good ways to record acoustic guitar, but these methods are simple and get great results.
Strum the guitar easily. Most "novice" guitarists tend to strum a little too hard when they are first playing.
Personally, I don't like acoustic guitar going in direct, and don't like the simulators that try and turn an electric guitar into an acoustic. They might sound okay, but they don't really sound like an acoustic all that much or capture that beautiful feel that an acoustic has. This is of course assuming that you want a natural-sounding acoustic guitar sound. If you want something slightly different from that, then disregard this paragraph and "simulate" away!! 
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#1682131 - 06/17/05 07:29 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Matt.Hepworth
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Admittedly, I don't have a much time with Nigel on my UAD-1, but I have been satisfied several times with the tone I've achieved that way. What sound are you going for? Nigel is primarily for electric, but you may be able to get cool acoustic sounds.
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#1682132 - 06/17/05 10:07 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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KenElevenShadows
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The "Nigel" part here....hmmm, I don't know if my above post is really relevant unless you are micing. Not sure what you are doing, but maybe it's helpful????
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#1682133 - 06/18/05 12:20 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Keyplayer
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I said I PLAY ACOUSTIC GUITAR. I didn't say the track was acoustic or that I had played it. The track is electric guitar, played by a real guitarist.
I'm trying to process his direct ELECTRIC guitar signal with Nigel to see if I can get any realistic amp sim effects. So far, everything I've gotten sounds "Synthy" to me. How do you make it sound like a Strat coming through a Marshall or a Les Paul coming through a Mesa Boogie, or a 175 coming through a Polytone? You know, the Basics. I don't expect "Soldano", but given UA's rep, I thought I'd get believable.
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#1682134 - 06/18/05 12:28 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Matt.Hepworth
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I find that they are typically more realistic than Amplitube and the like. It's not really designed to make a guitar into something it isn't (like make an LP sound like a Strat, etc.), but it does a good job at making me believe I'm playing through an amp on some settings. For a heavier sound, start with the "Crunchy" setting and begin tweaking. I just flipped through the presets really quickly a few minutes ago and I found several to have a quite real sound to them.
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#1682135 - 06/18/05 12:51 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Matt.Hepworth
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Oh, and it's not going to nail a Mesa, or Marshall, in fact it doesn't try to, it simply has some good sounding settings that are very believable.
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#1682136 - 06/18/05 08:04 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Keyplayer
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NOW we're getting somwhere. Can you explain the sections of the amp to me? The only part that I understand is the upper left hand panel with the compressor. EVERYTHING else looks like some kind of FX setting. Where's the "Tone Controls", Overdrive and Distortion section?
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#1682137 - 06/18/05 09:51 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Matt.Hepworth
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Most everything is in the middle upper section. Cab selection is just below that. I'm off to work, but I'll post more later.
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#1682138 - 06/18/05 04:04 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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KenElevenShadows
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I sense a little impatience in you from the first several posts ("I said I PLAY ACOUSTIC GUITAR. I didn't say the track was acoustic or that I had played it." and later on, the ever-so-pleasant "NOW we're getting somwhere.").
Quite frankly, Keyplayer, your post was confusing, and that's why you got those two answers about acoustic guitars and why we sought clarification. You said it was a "guitar track" (not specifying whether it was acoustic or electric) and later on said that you play a little "acoustic guitar".
Consider exercising a little more patience when we are attempting to help you answer your question.
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#1682139 - 06/18/05 04:41 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Philip O'Keefe
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What Ken said. 
We honestly want to help, but the way your post was worded, with no mention of an outside guitarist and only a mention of the fact that you play acoustic, we were simply looking for clarification - at least I was. I wasn't certain about it, and that's why I asked. Sorry if that upset you - that wasn't my intention. I was just trying to make sure we accurately knew what you were attempting to do so that we could give you appropriate responses.
As far a Nigel goes, I don't own it, so I can't give you specifics... however, I would say that most sims that I've tried have less than "useable" presets... most of them seem to be designed to impress on a store floor, and are not really designed for "real world use" - they tend to be over the top insofar as effects and distortion. So my suggestion is to start with a preset that gets you into the ballpark of what you're after, and then start modifying it. I normally would start by killing off all of the effects and then just concentrating on the basics - gain and EQ... after that, I would add any effects I wanted, making sure I was going for sounds and amounts that would be appropriate to what we were after, and not "over the top".
The guitar you use will definitely be a consideration. IMO, if you want the sound of a Strat, then you have to USE a Strat - a Les Paul usually isn't going to get you that tone - and vise versa. No amp sim is really going to make up for the difference in source guitars. IOW, if you play a Les Paul into Nigel, and then want it to sound like a Strat through a Marshall, you're never going to be satisfied. Obviously, a Strat into Nigel is going to make getting the "Strat through a Marshall" tone easier to get. The amp sim should be thought of as a replacement for the amp and effects part of the guitar tone signal chain, but it can't change the source guitar part of the equation. I'm sure you know that Keyplayer, but I put it in this post in case someone else is lurking (or searches on this topic later) and maybe DOESN'T know.
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#1682140 - 06/18/05 09:58 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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HiRoller
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Great, now this song is stuck in my head:
We’re only making plans for nigel
We only want what’s best for him
We’re only making plans for nigel
Nigel just needs this helping hand
And if young nigel says he’s happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work
We’re only making plans for nigel
He has his future in a british steel
We’re only making plans for nigel
Nigel’s whole future is as good as sealed
And if young nigel says he’s happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work
Nigel is not outspoken
But he likes to speak
And loves to be spoken to
Nigel is happy in his work
We’re only making plans for nigel
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#1682141 - 06/19/05 07:00 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Keyplayer
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Registered: 11/19/01
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Loc: Maryland, USA
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Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:
I sense a little impatience in you from the first several posts ("I said I PLAY ACOUSTIC GUITAR. I didn't say the track was acoustic or that I had played it." and later on, the ever-so-pleasant "NOW we're getting somwhere.").
Quite frankly, Keyplayer, your post was confusing, and that's why you got those two answers about acoustic guitars and why we sought clarification. You said it was a "guitar track" (not specifying whether it was acoustic or electric) and later on said that you play a little "acoustic guitar".
Consider exercising a little more patience when we are attempting to help you answer your question.
Instead you (the universal "you") post your question, go off for a couple of more frustrating hours trying to figure out how come everyone thought this thing was so great. Then you come back to find out you didn't word your question properly, nobody understands what you're asking and you A) feel like a dweeb and B) have another couple of hours to wait once you've clarified your position. I apologize for that. Thanks for your help.
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#1682142 - 06/19/05 12:30 PM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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No problem, Keyplayer! I get really frustrated with computer problems since I am definitely not a computer person, so I can definitely relate to that problem. I hope that you are getting closer to resolving the problem!
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#1682143 - 06/21/05 10:14 AM
Re: Anyone got any tips on how to make "Nigel" sound good?
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Lee Knight
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Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1077
Loc: Encinitas,CA,UNITED STATES
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He must be happy in his work! (I love that song)
Colin Moulding
I've found that if I use some analog compression going into the DI, the amp modeler, which ever one you're employng, sounds so much better.
I use the little Aphex Punch compressor with the built in DI for this. Just -3dB or so hits the modeler in a way that sounds more amplike.
BTW, I've had a lot more luck making my main electrics, all amp tracks, and using the modelers only for color, but that's just me.
He has his future in a-british steel! Stee-oh-oh!
Stee-oh-oh!
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