#1682040 - 06/20/05 12:30 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Tedly Nightshade
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Slap a PZM on it and put it through a Leslie. Leslie sitar! Crank the living shit out of the Leslie. Tell 'em the Beatles used to do that but not as hippy and not as weird.
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#1682041 - 06/20/05 12:35 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Mark Zeger
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Make the sitar player get one of these or these.
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#1682042 - 06/20/05 12:48 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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He already has a sitar, and does NOT want it recorded using a pickup.
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#1682043 - 06/20/05 01:34 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Tedly Nightshade
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I'd just explain that you can record it but nobody will ever hear it. If they want anybody to ever hear the sitar, they need to take appropriate steps.
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1682044 - 06/20/05 05:32 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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KenElevenShadows
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Tell the drummer that he can only use drum triggers.
He can only use brushes.
Drum machines only!
Convince the sitar player to go through a Marshall stack!
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#1682045 - 06/20/05 08:05 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Tedly Nightshade
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Maybe the sitar can trigger the drum machine!
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1682046 - 06/20/05 10:58 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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Or better yet, the drums into the sitar mics can trigger the drum machine that triggers the gates that capture the sitar in the drum overheads!!!!!!!!!!
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#1682047 - 06/20/05 11:09 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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KenElevenShadows
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See? Who said we couldn't solve this problem?
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#1682048 - 06/21/05 12:08 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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philbo_Tangent
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Here's an idea I haven't seen in the other posts - -
move the whole band to an anechoic environment. NOT a chamber, but outside! Then you can mic the sitar with the mic null pointing at the drummer. Problem solved.
Of course, if you're in a Megapolis, it might involve some serious driving, and some extra work with equipment tear down, transport & setup.
But what better way to capture their sound completely uncolored by the room? The times I've done this have always been very enlightening in terms of showing me how my room colors the sound.
And what a great organic vibe for a hippy band, to be playing in a natural environment.
BTW, the best reverb I've ever encountered was the leaves of a thick stand of maple trees about 50 feet away. It does take some fairly serious SPLs to excite, but, damn, the result is gorgeous!
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#1682049 - 06/21/05 10:36 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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KenElevenShadows
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You could move the drum set outside.
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#1682050 - 06/21/05 10:54 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Lee Knight
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Registered: 10/19/01
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You're probably done with this but how about...
Taping a PZM to a 4 foot square piece of plywood. Move the sitar as far fron the drums as possible. Then get the mic/ply combo right up on the sitar with the ply between the drums and the sitar. Absorbtion behind the sitar.
Then... any spill from the drums is going to sound nice anyway, as the PZM is perfect for this but hopefully low enough to not be a problem.
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#1682051 - 06/21/05 11:39 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Outside? The drummer would just play louder, with no compression from the enclosed space or reverb from the walls. Guys who play loud generally do so for physical, not audio reasons.
Bill
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#1682052 - 06/21/05 12:06 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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FoxTick
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Registered: 07/23/01
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Give the drummer a set of cans then...
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#1682053 - 06/21/05 12:47 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Lee Knight
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Registered: 10/19/01
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Oops... I suggested a PZM and you already tried a 91. Why didn't that work? Too much spill? Did you try the sitar backed into an absorbant corner, the 91 six inches away from the sitar? Drums in the opposite corner?
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#1682055 - 06/21/05 04:16 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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You could put the mic inside the sitar, the drums would still be louder.
No one will use cans.
If outdoors was an option, that might work, but I doubt it as the sitar player would end up closer to the drums so he could hear them and vice versa, resulting in the same scenario.
Bottom line is there is no solution, as you cannot re-write the laws of physics.
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#1682056 - 06/21/05 05:19 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Christopher Robin
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How does the drummer play along if he can't hear the sitar?
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#1682057 - 06/21/05 05:23 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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FoxTick
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Originally posted by where02190:
You could put the mic inside the sitar, the drums would still be louder.
No one will use cans.
If outdoors was an option, that might work, but I doubt it as the sitar player would end up closer to the drums so he could hear them and vice versa, resulting in the same scenario.
Bottom line is there is no solution, as you cannot re-write the laws of physics.
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#1682058 - 06/21/05 06:45 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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the drummer claims he can hear it.
Fox, yuou could put 100 mics in the room and none of them would capture the sitar, the drums are too loud, the sitar too soft. basic physics.
Thanks anyway, this was amusing.
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#1682060 - 06/22/05 10:46 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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DC
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I think I would sneak in and put a wireless contact pickup (do they make those?) on the sitar on the back where the player won't look. Or you could hide the cord under a carpet or something.
If that won't work, get a small tent for the sitar player. Hippies love tents, they had to take them to all the 'Dead' concerts they used to go to. Throw a ton of blankets on the side facing the drummer and put the mic about an inch from the instrument.
Could you invite the sitar player into the control room with you. They could smile and wave and make eye contact. 
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#1682061 - 06/23/05 02:52 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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If you put blankets between the sitarist and the drummer they can't see eachother, and blankets aren't going to reduce the SPL from the drums significantly.
As previously mentioned, a pickup is not an option, and to anyone with a halfway decent ear a pickup would be immediately obvious. In addition, a Sitar makes a variety fo tonal nuances from various parts of the instrument that a pickup could never capture accurately.
Thanks anyway.
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#1682062 - 06/23/05 05:32 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Philip O'Keefe
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Being a hippie and doing the drums / sitar thing may be cool, but it's not going to change the laws of physics.  Masking is going to be an issue. Tell them they have three choices - overdub, seperate rooms or a cruddy recording that will be beyond your control. You can't deny or change the laws of physics... it just won't work tracking them in the same room at the same time unless it's one HUGE room. I'd tell them "if someone fires off a 12 GA shotgun while I simultaneously drop a needle on to the floor, there's no way the needle is going to be audible above the roar of the shotgun blast. That's masking. Your drums and sitar are essentially doing the same thing, and recording them in the same room, the drums will overwhelm the sitar. Sorry, but there is no way to make that happen without making huge compromises to that sitar recording."
I know you want to please your clients, but not all client demands and expectations are within the realm of possibility. Heck, I'd like to be able to fly around at will, using nothing more than my body, but that's not going to happen either. 
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#1682063 - 06/23/05 08:54 AM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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I LOVE the 12 Ga analogy. Perhaps I could demonstrate it for them!!!!!!
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#1682064 - 06/23/05 12:44 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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Tedly Nightshade
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Originally posted by where02190:
I LOVE the 12 Ga analogy. Perhaps I could demonstrate it for them!!!!!!
You'd be amazed what you can get away with outdoors. Set up a monitor for the drummer to hear the sitar. Put the sitar behind a stack of cinder blocks.
But it'll never be like recorded musicians with a clue... 
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1682065 - 06/23/05 05:37 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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where02190
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Nice try Ted, but they don't want to use any monitoring and need to maintain visual contact. If I could ISO the sitar in antother room the problem would be solved.
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#1682067 - 06/24/05 03:13 PM
Re: Recording Sitar and loud drummer in same room
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KenElevenShadows
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Awright, one more idea:
The Cones of Silence!!!
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