#1681952 - 06/14/05 03:09 PM
Need new audio interface
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mjm
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Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 130
Loc: London, England
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Something really bad happened today. I can think of many swear words that wouldn't even begin to describe my frustration, my RME Multiface got stolen as I was going through London. It's uninsured so I've basically lost £350 and my primary sound interface and there's nothing I can do to get it back.
That means I'm now looking for a new interface. I'm going to sell my HDSP PCI and PCMCIA cards and get a new interface, this time with some pre's on it.
Here's what I'd like:
At least 2 pre's (4 would be nicer)
Good AD's (and DA's)
A *bit* of portability (no larger than 1U in size)
Good ASIO (I use VST instruments in everything I do)
At least 6 Outs (8 would be nicer)
So I'm thinking about the RME Fireface 800 (a bit too pricey but may be the only option) or a MOTU Traveller or 828. Has anyone used any of these? Is there something nice out there that I've missed?
_________________________
My latest piece: for orchestra (recorded at Blackheath Halls, London, March 2006, 2mins long)
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#1681953 - 06/14/05 03:30 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Philip O'Keefe
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I'd look at a Yamaha i88X - they're going for as low as $399 here in the States right now, and they're very cool. Very good converters, ASIO drivers (with REALLY low latency), mLAN support (for expandability), MIDI I/O, a total of 18 audio I/O's (including S/PDIF and ADAT Lightpipe), two really nice mic preamps, some nice bundled plug ins... a very nice package for not very much dough. 
PS Sorry to hear about your loss. That sucks! 
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#1681955 - 06/14/05 04:29 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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mjm
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Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 130
Loc: London, England
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I know about the M-Audio line (used to work for them) and have always been open to that option (still own a Delta 1010 with PT-MP) but our G5 in college is pretty crackly when running Max/MSP with the Firewire 410 which is what I'll be doing so I'm a bit suspicious of parting cash with M-Audio on that.
I like that the Fireface 800 has 4 pre's
I don't really feel like going with Yamaha again, I've had nothing but problems with my 01X with the Halion Strings Player which just weren't there with the RME Multiface, the latency on the 01X was about 17ms which isn't that nice (compared to 5ms with the RME at the same Halion RAM settings). mLAN is unstable, everytime my sequencer crashes I have to reboot my 01X and restart mLAN or even my PC, this process takes sometime. It's cost me valuable hours which should have been spent composing.
Btw, a second short film I composed the music for is being screened at the National Film Theatre (at the British Film Institute) on July 9th.
What about MOTU's range and Echo? Is there anything better / as good as the Fireface?
_________________________
My latest piece: for orchestra (recorded at Blackheath Halls, London, March 2006, 2mins long)
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#1681956 - 06/14/05 04:53 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Sean Eldon
Senior Member
Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 462
Loc: Long Island
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motu 896hd
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#1681957 - 06/14/05 05:10 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Philip O'Keefe
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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the latency on the 01X was about 17ms which isn't that nice
That must be a Mac thing... when I did the 01X / i88X review for EQ, I was astonished by the system's latency - just a tad over 1 ms (not a typo). BY FAR the lowest I've ever seen.
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#1681958 - 06/14/05 05:14 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Why not another Multiface, or the upcoming Multiface II? I'm a big RME fan, and I've tried most of the companies out there. For my money, the top tier are RME and Lynx. There is nothing wrong with chosing from the other major brands... MAudio has always fielded a nice product, etc. But for my money they don't measure up to the whole package that RME provides, or the quality of the sound that Lynx offers.
I have a Fireface. No problems to report, but I'm not stressing it out.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1681959 - 06/14/05 05:19 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Philip O'Keefe
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Bill, I've been impressed with (and recommending) RME stuff for years. I've never listened to the Lynx stuff though. I see you're running an RME, but do you also use a Lynx, and if so, what model(s) are you using?
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#1681960 - 06/14/05 05:20 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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(RhythmInMind)
Gold Member
Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 625
Loc: Santa Monica
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this is true we have a bunch of lynx cards.. sound great, and are AES but drivers/software could be better..
we have a handfull of lynxones and L22 for wavelab systems..
we use aes16 and lynxtwos for multitrack recorders..
lynx A/D's are great..
_________________________
"I saw one the other day with an impressive number of knobs to twist - I
have no idea what they do." -undisclosed forum member
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#1681961 - 06/14/05 05:27 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Philip O'Keefe
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but drivers/software could be better..
Hmmm.  What sort of driver problems have you encountered? IMO stable / regularly updated drivers is a pretty darned important thing to take into consideration.
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#1681962 - 06/14/05 05:56 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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(RhythmInMind)
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Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 625
Loc: Santa Monica
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ASIO didn't work with wavelab, the mixer can be a hassle to deal with. allitle to over engineered.. when you are in a rush to get audio in and out you can get trapped in the ok what channel is routed to what, what channel has SRC on, what is it locked to. the cards have locked up and need to be power cycled before passing audio again..
playing 2 different samplerates isn't as easy as it should be... the card has to be setup for each. i know most of my issues are only in all digital environments, but the RME cards work allot smoother with the same tasks..
_________________________
"I saw one the other day with an impressive number of knobs to twist - I
have no idea what they do." -undisclosed forum member
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#1681963 - 06/14/05 06:13 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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d-dmusic_dup1
Gold Member
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 553
Loc: Markham
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I also need to A/D D/A convertors and although most people have good intentions it's a little confusing visiting the various forums.
One "reputable" person will say that anything RME sucks (why ? I have no idea) the next several people will say that they absolutely love Fireface and it has the latest greatest convertors in it and sounds fantastic.
But, another pro designer will tell you that it's not so much the convertors as the analog circuitry and how it's designed and implemented.
One person will have "issues" with brand X's drivers others say they haven't had any problems at all.
Another pro will tell you specs aren't everything
and it depends on weighting and gear should be measured with "F" weighting in order to be more standardized and more meaningful.
Try before you buy is my suggestion. And I would do the trial in your studio in a familiar setting.
I may go Fireface. I think. Maybe.
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#1681964 - 06/14/05 06:14 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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g8bassplayer
Senior Member
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Orange County, CA
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MJM
I bought an RME Fireface a few months ago to replace my aging DA7 and have been using it ever since. It's very reliable and the sound is clean. I've used the mic pre's on only a couple of occassions, as i usually go through outboard pre's. Not a quality issue. Actually, the RME pre's sound pretty nice to me. I really like it overall.
Dave
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#1681965 - 06/14/05 07:08 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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All the disparate opinions can sometimes get confusing, but often in a forum like this, you can measure the person's words with where they are coming from since after a while, we get a sense of who is doing what and who, if anyone, is blowin' smoke up people's butt.
The RME seems to be about US$1450 or thereabouts, so it's a little expensive. I heard that it's supposed to be a good-sounding solid unit, not jaw-dropping in the way that a Prism or a Lavry is supposed to be, but definitely not something to snicker at, especially given its price (which for a lot of A/D and D/A actually isn't very expensive even though you and I might choke on dropping that much coin for it! 
I've never used any RME products, so I cannot say from first hand experience.
As some people know on this forum, I really stretched and got an Apogee Rosetta 800. It's got 8 in, 8 out (8 A/D and 8 D/A, in other words). And sheeesh, does this thing ever sound good. I mean, really good. I've been recording analog for years and years, and was getting a really great sound. I would never put up with something that sounded bad. The Apogee actually satisfies that, and for me, that's really saying something as I think a lot of digital recordings sound like a**.
The bad news is that it's a lot of money (although again, I actually think it's a pretty good bargain considering how one is getting sixteen great converters). But....no mic preamps.
So if I could not stretch to get an Apogee, I'd probably be looking at a few things - maybe the OctoPre, RME, PreSonus???? Maybe the Mackie Onyx? I'd somehow try and compare these or figure out how they sounded, and then go from there.
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#1681966 - 06/14/05 08:40 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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mjm
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Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 130
Loc: London, England
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As far as going RME is concerned, I'm really impressed with them, AD/DA's are amazing, not sure about the pre's never used them (because the multiface doesn't have them). I've not heard a bad thing about their pre's from forums or in any of the mags. My only concern is the price.
Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
the latency on the 01X was about 17ms which isn't that nice
That must be a Mac thing... when I did the 01X / i88X review for EQ, I was astonished by the system's latency - just a tad over 1 ms (not a typo). BY FAR the lowest I've ever seen.
In fact, I've been looking at Tascam's Firewire offering with interest: http://www.tascam.de/en/fw-1804.html
_________________________
My latest piece: for orchestra (recorded at Blackheath Halls, London, March 2006, 2mins long)
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#1681967 - 06/15/05 08:53 AM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally posted by d-dmusic:
I also need to A/D D/A convertors ...
I may go Fireface. I think. Maybe.
I have Myteck converters. I use RME interfaces. I have owned the 9652, the Multiface, the Digiface, and the Fireface. I'm not very forgiving. One of the reasons that I use a PC, is that, if you piss me off, I'll dump your product in a heartbeat and get something else. Under $3k, I can replace just about any software or interface and recoup the expense in a reasonable amount of time. So, forme to have stayed with RME, I must be pretty happy with what they have provided. And their prices are reasonable for what you get. I think that I bought my first piece from Washington Pro, then Bayview, but East Coast Music Mall and others handle the line. I think they might be in GC, too.
"...another pro designer will tell you that it's not so much the convertors as the analog circuitry and how it's designed and implemented...."
This is out of context. People are often willing to assume that, because a given converter set has the same converter chip as a different converter set, these two converter sets will sound the same. This ignores all of the rest of the circuitry in the converter set, which is mostly the analog support circuitry, but also the power supply, layout, grounding, etc. the $5 converter set will never sound like the $5,000 converter set, no matter what you might wish.
"One person will have "issues" with brand X's drivers others say they haven't had any problems at all."
When you buy a piece of gear, you are buying not only a box, but the support software and the customer care, too. There are many cases of companies that are known for excellent customer care, and others well knowne to be horrible with customer care. There are driver issues that manefest themselves on various machine configurations... this is not a problem UNLESS the company ignores the issue. This is why I like RME. They regularly uodate the performance capabilities of their products, they quickly address any issues that they become aware of, and they are always an email away, or a phone call to Boardman Ohio away. I've been recording digital audio about as long as anyone, and I've used a lot of interfaces and dealt with a lot fo good and not so good people. Consistantly, RME exceeds my expectations. Have they always been able to solve everyone's problems? Probably not. But they do try, and they do respond quickly. That is very important to me, as it would be to anyone with clients and deadlines.
"Another pro will tell you specs aren't everything
and it depends on weighting and gear should be measured with "F" weighting in order to be more standardized and more meaningful."
Stop reading specs.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1681968 - 06/15/05 08:56 AM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Mike Martin
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Registered: 01/10/01
Posts: 1107
Loc: Naperville, Ilinois
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mjm,
What kind of computer do you have? What kind of firewire card are you using? On my laptop I'm below 10ms with the 01x and my new desktop I'm well below that.
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#1681969 - 06/15/05 09:00 AM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
Bill, I've been impressed with (and recommending) RME stuff for years. I've never listened to the Lynx stuff though. I see you're running an RME, but do you also use a Lynx, and if so, what model(s) are you using?
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1681970 - 06/15/05 11:44 AM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Sean Eldon
Senior Member
Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 462
Loc: Long Island
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Fireface is a special order at my store right now, but we usually have it within 3-4 days. The other cards and interfaces by RME are in stock all the time.
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#1681971 - 06/15/05 02:43 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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d-dmusic_dup1
Gold Member
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 553
Loc: Markham
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:
..............
I have Myteck converters. I use RME interfaces. I have owned the 9652, the Multiface, the Digiface, and the Fireface. I'm not very forgiving.................So, forme to have stayed with RME, I must be pretty happy with what they have provided. And their prices are reasonable for what you get............
Bill [/QB]
Since you've used a variety of interfaces maybe you could give us some idea of the differences. Give us a "review" and don't pull any punches.
Personally, I need something that not only sounds good but is very, very quiet and transparency is probably the best but I don't mind character. When I run eight channels or 16 channels out to my board I don't want to hear anything but the signal.
Unfortunately, this is not true for my Tango convertors. (Maybe I have a bumm unit ?-it sounds really good though....)Running 8 channels out for analog summing and I get a substantial amount of hiss at even moderate gain.
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#1681972 - 06/15/05 02:45 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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d-dmusic_dup1
Gold Member
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 553
Loc: Markham
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:
..............
I have Myteck converters. I use RME interfaces. I have owned the 9652, the Multiface, the Digiface, and the Fireface. I'm not very forgiving.................So, forme to have stayed with RME, I must be pretty happy with what they have provided. And their prices are reasonable for what you get............
Bill [/QB]
Since you've used a variety of interfaces maybe you could give us some idea of the differences. Give us a "review" and don't pull any punches.
Personally, I need something that not only sounds good but is very, very quiet and transparency is probably the best but I don't mind character. When I run eight channels or 16 channels out to my board I don't want to hear anything but the signal.
Unfortunately, this is not true for my Tango convertors. (Maybe I have a bumm unit ?-it sounds really good though....)Running 8 channels out for analog summing and I get a substantial amount of hiss at even moderate gain.
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#1681973 - 06/15/05 03:19 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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seclusion
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Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 612
Loc: Orillia, CANADA
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Hey Phil is that revue of the Yamy o1x floating around anywhere??? I'm torn between it and a FW1884. Thanks
_________________________
Smile if you're not wearin panties.
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#1681974 - 06/15/05 03:23 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Hmmm.... The Tango was a very well respected unit within it's price range. I didn't use it, but I was a beta tester for the original Wave Center, and Dakota, and I did use the (20 bit) Zulu for a while. You are sure that the hiss is a converter issue, not a gain-staging issue?
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1681975 - 06/15/05 03:40 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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mjm
Senior Member
Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 130
Loc: London, England
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Originally posted by Mike Martin:
mjm,
What kind of computer do you have? What kind of firewire card are you using? On my laptop I'm below 10ms with the 01x and my new desktop I'm well below that.
I'm now running a 64-Bit Shuttle XPC with 2GB of RAM and AMD 64 3000. The problems are still evident though, I get annoying crackles when playing back my Nuendo project. I first thought it was disk-read time but I tried it with loading as much of the samples up in RAM as I could and it was still there. I didn't get these crackles with the RME Multiface which means I'm (maybe unfairly) thinking that it's a hardware issue with the 01X. That and whenever Nuendo 3 crashes (which I'm p'ssed of with) I have to completely restart the 01X, mLan etc. etc. even reboot my PC sometimes, it's *really* annoying me and has cost me a whole day in terms of productivity, Nuendo was fussing over the Mixdowns. If you've got the bandwidth and time, I could upload the project to my site if you're interested, I'll understand if you haven't though.
For the record, I only use legal software and the short film in question is being premiered at the British Film Institute National Film Theatre in London on 6 July (between 2-5 PM with some other shorts).
_________________________
My latest piece: for orchestra (recorded at Blackheath Halls, London, March 2006, 2mins long)
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#1681976 - 06/15/05 03:55 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally posted by mjm:
[QUOTE]... The problems are still evident though, I get annoying crackles when playing back my Nuendo project. ....
Also, have you considered rendering the real time playback tracks from the sampler to waves? Or rendering effects back to the tracks? or maybe making some mixed stems, and muting the original tracks? (Just some ways to lighten the load, and maybe get rid of the crackles.)
Finally, there were some issues involving Firewire which were talked about on the RME forums.... sorry that I don't know much about it but I've ceased to be an early adopter, I buy when the smoke clears, and I bought the recommended firewire card once the dust settled. But it had something to do with Windows XP Service Pack 2 dropping firewire performance from 400 to 100.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1681978 - 06/15/05 05:39 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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mjm
Senior Member
Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 130
Loc: London, England
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I've tried the 'Freeze VST Instruments' option in Nuendo which essentially renders the VSTi to a waveform. That helps but say for example I had all VSTi tracks frozen but wanted to record another (VSTi) one in, I get the crackles again.
_________________________
My latest piece: for orchestra (recorded at Blackheath Halls, London, March 2006, 2mins long)
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#1681979 - 06/15/05 06:53 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Rhino Madness
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1263
Loc: Oregon
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:
Finally, there were some issues involving Firewire which were talked about on the RME forums.... sorry that I don't know much about it but I've ceased to be an early adopter, I buy when the smoke clears, and I bought the recommended firewire card once the dust settled. But it had something to do with Windows XP Service Pack 2 dropping firewire performance from 400 to 100.
Bill
Also, different hardware may require different chipset for the firewire card. As Bill mentioned, it's worth checking into this on the RME forums.
Rhino
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#1681980 - 06/15/05 07:23 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Mike Martin
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Registered: 01/10/01
Posts: 1107
Loc: Naperville, Ilinois
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Mike,
So you're using the built in firewire controller on the XPC? Do you have any idea what kind of controller it is? I've had the best luck with the Adaptec Firewire cards over everything else.
If you look at the driver setup in the mLAN driver menu it should show a name.
If you're not using the latest mLAN drivers I'd recommend updating as there were some signficant improvements in the lates version.
In regards to the MS Firewire patch, I believe this was only a problem with FW800 controllers.
-MMM (my middle initial is M)
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#1681981 - 06/15/05 07:55 PM
Re: Need new audio interface
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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FWIW, when I tested / reviewed the mLAN products (01X, i88X) it was with a VIA chipset firewire interface... I actually used two - one built into the mobo (Asus K8N Deluxe, Athlon 64 3400 CPU), and also a PCI card. Both worked identically for me.
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