#1681936 - 06/14/05 12:51 PM
Ever done this?
|
Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
|
Offline
|
|
Probably boring, if so I apologize...
Since I'm kinda "bare bones" in my project studio gearwise...I'm thinking on approaching my project thusly:
Recording a rough demo of all songs to click. Hiring a local session drummer, then going into a regular studio just for drum tracks. Getting a stereo mix of said drum tracks (with the requisite count-off), and finishing the rest of the project at home.
Make sense? Strengths of idea? Weaknesses of idea?
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681937 - 06/14/05 01:27 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
DC
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 2706
Loc: here to eternity...
|
|
Offline
|
|
If you've got all your tunes written, then that's doable.
Thing is, once you start adding instruments, you might find a different snare sound, kick sound etc. might work better. Have you got enough mics to set up a drum recording room in your home just for two and three song sessions?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681938 - 06/14/05 01:37 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah...hmmmm...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681939 - 06/14/05 01:48 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
KenElevenShadows
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Is there any way you can get individual files so you can mix down at home? Otherwise, it's doable.
I recorded one of my songs by recording the drum tracks straight to DAT because my multi-track wasn't working at the time. Came out quite well. Most of the time, you can guess pretty well and have it come out well. But if you can, it's always good to be able to make some adjustments in the mix later.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681940 - 06/14/05 03:04 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Kendrix
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 2150
Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
There is some guy that advertises in recording mag that offers to track drums to your songs for a fee. You may want to check this out.
Why not use program/sampled drums?
Are you looking to capture the fine nuances of rythmic feel and an authentic room sound of the real live recorded drums?
Or, are you just lacking any means to generate drum sounds yourself?
These days a used drum machine and/or SW sampler + sequencer can be had fairly cheaply. Probably for less than one drum tracking session will cost you. With this you can tweak the beats and the sounds till you turn blue.- generally at the expense of the real live feel and the fine nuances.
Be careful about assuming that one click track tempo will be perfectly maintained as you move files across systems. It aint always the case.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681941 - 06/14/05 03:11 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Lee Knight
Platinum Member
Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1077
Loc: Encinitas,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I agree with getting individual files. I had a request to do drums for someone once and they wanted a stereo mix... that's it. I recommended he take all the files just in case. He declined, so I supplied him with the snare and kick, against his wishes  , 2 extra files, along with the premixed, all drums stereo mix.
He ended up using either the snare or kick file in addition to the premix on every track. At least with those 2 extra files, you can adjust the relative K to S balance using one or the other, whichever one you need more of...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681942 - 06/14/05 04:14 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
|
|
Offline
|
|
Very helpful stuff so far... thanks!
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681943 - 06/14/05 05:05 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
KenElevenShadows
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Even if you just have a few files that are submixed - overheads, kick, snare, for instance - or overheads plus toms spread out, kick and snare....it would help a lot.
Otherwise, if you must do stereo (which ain't that bad) just take your best guess, make sure that the kick is good and up front and punchy and that the snare doesn't completely dominate, then make sure that the crashes are clean and have attack and are prominent. You can control a surprising amount of the perceived "volume" with EQ (kick - low end; snare-mids; high-hat and ride and crash - high end)). I've done this before, and it actually works surprisingly well.
Also, the other thing you can do is listen to CDs that have drum loops, and you can fairly accurately guage how to balance your kit accordingly since there's are designed to have instruments already.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681945 - 06/14/05 06:57 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
KenElevenShadows
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
He should definitely have a clue, yes. But using loops as a guideline could be helpful, just as a point of reference.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681946 - 06/14/05 09:06 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Tedly Nightshade
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 4649
Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Here's what I think, Most Excellent Other Ted. Since we are talking about you, essentially a live rock&roll kinda guy.
Assuming you are really into this whole doing overdubs at home, which it sounds like you are.
So how to make the most of the energy and keep it kickin'?
I'm a little sketch on the idea of drum overdubs in general- you have to crank the hell out of the monitors or phones for the drummer to be able to rock confidently to the headphone mix- and it better be a hell of a headphone mix.
Which headphone mix you would be creating at home before hand, or at least recording the tracks for.
OK. Drummer is gonna be able to lead the show and be free instead of too careful and obedient if he's not required to follow the phones or a click or a loop. So just for the sake of my idea here, let's just say fuck the headphones and save the overdubs for back at home.
So, what this becomes- Most Excellent Other Ted takes his g'itar and his Most Excellent Drummer- do yourself a big big favor and invest wisely in a couple/few sessions with someone you're just thrilled to work with!- and Most Excellent Other Ted lives up to his Glorious Title of Renown (gtr) by laying down the rhythm guitar and LEAD VOCAL (!) l-i-v-e with the basic tracks just like he was one of the BEATLES or something! Or Wilson Pickett, or maybe Muddy Waters! Or more realistically maybe like Little Bobbie Dylan!
Thus enabling Most Excellent Other Ted to hit the high notes he can only nail on vox with a rockin' LIVE drummer right there in the room with him! And the Most Excellent Drummer kicks ass and takes names with total authority, knowing that Whatever He Plays Is Right, is How the Song Goes! And Most Excellent Other Ted, Most Excellent Fellow that he Is, is totally stoked to rock out with Most Excellent Drummer and is more than happy to adapt the song to the Most Excellent Drumming there in the Moment!
You can try to keep everything Isolated so it can be timidly retracked later, so the Cracked Insane Scream that perfectly suits the song can be replaced with a Polite DoNotDisturbDeNeighbors Tentative Exploration. And of course so the Most Excellent Drumming can be Corrected and Sound Replaced.
Or, you can let it all hang out with Plenty O' Bleed and have whatever overdubs inspired by the Most Excellent Live Jam Kickin' in your home studio headphones.
What say?
_________________________
A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681947 - 06/14/05 11:10 PM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Lee Flier
10k Club
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah I have to agree with the other Ted here, Ted. I think your idea has merit (although I agree it would be better to just get separate files for the drums, you never REALLY know how anything's gonna sit in the mix...), but rather than cutting a demo to a click and have a drummer play to it, it'd be better if you recorded at least a rhythm guitar track and maybe a scratch vocal along with the drummer. It's a much better vibe and you can dispense with the click that way. Then you've let the drummer be the foundation, and can build on those tracks at home.
My band works that way (we usually go for keeper bass tracks at the same time too but you may not be able to do that!) and I've also recorded lotsa other folks that way. The energy is always miles better than the drummer doing an overdub.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681948 - 06/15/05 06:49 AM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Kris
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida
|
|
Offline
|
|
Tedster, sounds like a good plan to me... most importantly you will need a great drummer. I use this approach every now and again when I record out of town. Get the drums on separate tracks as well as doing the initial drum mix. Then you have options...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681950 - 06/15/05 09:52 AM
Re: Ever done this?
|
d gauss
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 3231
Loc: Somewhere in the Swamps of Jer...
|
|
Offline
|
|
tedster,
shouldn't be a problem if you don't over think it.
a bunch of ELO records (even though i'm not a fan of Jeff Lynne)were done with an acoustic guitar bed of the song and everything else including drums overdubbed later. i.e. if you play guitar with energy and IN TIME, you can have a nice bed track with feel and no click. a bunch of early todd rundgren stuff was also done that way. historically, i think all those songs faired ok with the general public...
a step further... on the first lenny kravitz album, for some crazy reason of lenny's, after working on vocal/instrument overdubs for months, we erased the existing drums off the 24 track (no safety copy made) and overdubbed lenny (who didn't play the original drums) playing the drums to what was left of the track... that was scary but it worked...
then he bounced the whole mess to 1 inch 8 track to mix it, but that's another story...
-d. gauss
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1681951 - 06/15/05 10:43 AM
Re: Ever done this?
|
Tedly Nightshade
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 4649
Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
¸??? riginally posted by Tedster:
I like what the Most Excellent Other Ted said there...  ...
Tedly sez ----> Or, you can let it all hang out with Plenty O' Bleed and have whatever overdubs inspired by the Most Excellent Live Jam Kickin' in your home studio headphones.
Tedster replies ----> Most assuredly. Of course, it depends on the track. I have some tracks that that will be perfect on...and some that are a bit mellower.
I also find that when I'm in my home studio (not too many folks around, neighbors at a safe distance), I can scream vocals out better (if I'm alone, anyhoo)...
Good stuff. [/QUOTE]
Well in that case I'd just do a scratch vocal to keep you& the drummer aware of that you're doing a song with a vocal that ought to be worked with and around, and focus on laying down some rhythm guitar and drums. Or piano and drums or whatever. Bass is a possibility for sure.
For the mellower songs, the energy may not be the Electric Mayhem that I was yackin' about, but it's just as important to track the drums live with the basics- that way, any little expressive touches with the timing and dynamics can be readily incorporated and things can be oh so groovy and mellow and comfortable and laid back. Timing can be really free with some of the mellow stuff.
_________________________
A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
