#1681797 - 06/13/05 12:07 AM
Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Hi all. . . long time no post. . . happily, the time has been reasonably well spent in various pursuits.
It is time to attempt to pick some more juicy morsels from your collective consciousness.
Microphone question:
I'm thinking of moving up the microphone food chain from my Rode K2, Shure KSM32, Shure SM81s, and Shure SM57.
I'm looking for a microphone primarily for vocals (both male and female) and acoustic guitar, and am running the mics into my Grace 101 preamp.
I am specifically interested into your assessment of the following microphones:
Soundelux U99
Soundelux ifet7
Manley Gold Reference (mono version)
Lawson "combo" package with the "four microphones in one deal"
Neumann U87Ai
Is there some juicy $2000 to $3000ish microphone that dominates these pups?
Anyway, as always, I am very grateful for the advice and help.
Steve
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#1681798 - 06/13/05 12:45 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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MarkD
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The Brauner Valvet would be a nice addition for around $2900.
Personally I'd give the modern Neumanns a miss, unless you can find one for an extraordinarily good deal.
They are still a nice mic, but nowhere near as good as they used to be before Sennheiser spoiled things. Now they are just way over priced.
If you really want "Neumanns" check out the Microtech Gefell range. They are the "Real Neumanns"
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#1681799 - 06/13/05 02:01 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
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The Steven Paul modded mics are killer....
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#1681800 - 06/13/05 07:24 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
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ADK TT/CE!!! 
$1000-$1200
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1681801 - 06/13/05 08:29 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Chris Cavell
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Registered: 04/04/05
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If I had only the mics in your list at my disposal, I'd probably reach for the L251 with the tube body on most occasions or the manley gold. I don't particularly care for the L47 on the tube body, but it's great on the fet body.
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#1681802 - 06/13/05 09:40 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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I have a Lawson L251, which apparently never met a voice it didn't like....so far, *everyone* seems to sound great through this mic. The thing is magical.
However, for acoustic guitars, I tried it a few times, and sure, you can get a pretty good acoustic sound, but I actually prefer my two (modified) AT4051s instead. Bear in mind that I am usually blending the guitar in with other instruments. When I use the Lawson for acoustic guitars, the acoustic guitar seems to dominate more and doesn't sit in the mix as much because it's huge sounding. The AT4051s give me an absolutely beautiful acoustic guitar sound that sound good by itself or blends with other instruments. YMMV.
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#1681803 - 06/13/05 09:56 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
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Thanks for all the tips! And please keep 'em coming.
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#1681804 - 06/13/05 10:17 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Tedly Nightshade
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Registered: 01/03/02
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Good move, investing in a great microphone.
What exactly to you hope to do with it?
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"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1681805 - 06/13/05 10:36 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Well, Tedly. . . I'm HOPING that the new mic will make me sound like the singer I always hoped I could be. . . and my guitar sound like heaven itself opened for all to hear. . . but I suppose I'll just have put up with who I am.
:-(
Basically, it is just for acoustic guitar and male and female vox. . .
If anyone has anything bad to say about the Lawsons, now is the time to say it. . . the more I read, the better it sounds.
Thanks again.
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#1681806 - 06/13/05 10:48 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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I have nothing bad to say about the L251. If someone said that I would have to get rid of all my mics except for one, I'd keep the L251. One thing that I really love about it is its variable polar pattern. You can sweep between polar patterns instead of having fixed, discrete polar patterns, AND you can control this from the power supply instead of having to diddle with the microphone. How cool is that? The thing sounds amazing.
I recorded some really good 21-year old musicians two weeks ago, recording the vocalist through an L251/RNP combination. After singing, he exclaimed, "How do you make my voice sound so huge?" Before I could answer, he said, "Is it some sort of plug-in?"  "He continued, that can't be just the mic by itself, could it?" Why, yes, that's a large part of it...
The L251 also makes a great room mic for drums, vibraphones, etc. An all around stunning mic.
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#1681807 - 06/13/05 10:50 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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Oh, and if that's not enough, the Lawsons are totally sweet people.
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#1681808 - 06/13/05 10:58 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Sweet people are very, very nice. . .
:-)
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#1681809 - 06/13/05 12:32 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by umkcprof:
Sweet people are very, very nice. . .
:-)
You might also consider a nice ribbon mic. I like the Coles, and a pair of them can be found for around $2,000.
I listened to the Neumann 127, and I thought that it was a pretty decent sounding mic, too.
You always hear good things about the Lawsons, and the Manley Gold.
Bill
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#1681810 - 06/13/05 12:49 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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There's an ELAM 251 made by Soundelux that I heard is supposed to be nice, but I think it may be outside the budget you specified.
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#1681811 - 06/13/05 05:48 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Philip O'Keefe
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You're correct Ken... it's about $5K list price. But it is an exceptionally great mic. 
It's really hard to go wrong with Soundelux. The iFET7 is a versatile mic, but I think for your intended applications, the U99 would be a great choice due to the multi-pattern flexibility. The new E250 is incredible, and would probably fit into your budget ($3K list), but while it is one of the best vocal mics I've ever heard, it likes a bit of distance for best results on acoustic guitar, which means your room needs to "not suck".  If the room is up to it, that would be my first recommendation for you insofar as great mics at that price point. Watch for a review in (next month's?) EQ.
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#1681812 - 06/13/05 06:37 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Tedly Nightshade
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The Manley Gold is great in omni through wide cardioid patterns. It starts getting a bit thin in the cardioid through figure 8 patterns.
It certainly can sound very nice on acoustic guitar and on vox both male and female.
But I can't compare it to the other mics you mention as I haven't used them.
The rooms you will be using the mic in have something to do with it. If you are trying to record vocal and guitar together at once, that's quite a trick and some mics will do it better than others. Yeah you can overdub but it often affects the flow of this kind of music. It's just about possible with the Manley Gold but it's hard due to the way the highs attenuate off axis. Typical LDC issue.
Some exceptionally sweet small diaphragm condensors let you pull off the singing and playing at once with great style and aplomb. Schoeps mk41/cmc6 is a very nice microphone indeed, and I think it's in the $1500 range. mk21 is another really nice capsule for the Schoeps.
Another advantage to some of the SDC's is their simplicity of setup and use. Plus you can take one on stage without it being too much of a production. All that outboard power supply and big heavy delicate mics make LDC's, especially tube LDC's, a big production.
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1681813 - 06/13/05 08:10 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Sean Eldon
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Registered: 04/19/04
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Loc: Long Island
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Check out the following mics by B.L.U.E.
1) Kiwi (MAP at 1999.99, shockmount $350) is a 9 polar pattern FET mic. Handbuilt capsule, hand tuned and tested by the guys who build it. Remarkable on all vocals, acoustic guitar, piano, and drum overheads. This is a mic you will use for the rest of your life without a second thought. I bought two.
2) Cactus (MAP at $2499.99, comes with shockmount and pop filter) is a 3 pattern tube mic. HIGH, HIGH, HIGH QUALITY BUILD. Same deal with the capsule and testing and tuning and such. Let's say you're 200 pounds. Now you sing through this thing, you sound like you're 250. Get my drift? Also does wonders on even the loudest guitar amps. Just used it on a trumpet with a technique that a representative at B.L.U.E. turned me onto and I couldn't be happier with the results. A much darker mic, however, compared to the brightness of the Kiwi.
Apples and oranges. And about 500 bucks. Whatever. Buy all of the B.L.U.E. products, actually.
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#1681814 - 06/18/05 04:32 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 158
Loc: Kansas City
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Thanks for all the great advice. . . I couldn't buy everything, but based upon what I heard here and from a few other folks, I decided to buy two LDCs. . . a Manley Gold Reference (less than a year old and absolutely mint condition from a seller on ebay. . . $3000) and a Soundelux ifet7 (brand new in the box for $1400 on ebay).
Whether these new acquisitions will make a dime's worth of difference to my sound remains to be determined. I apparently have more money than talent, and precious little of that, anymore.
Anyway, thanks again for all of your help. This is the best forum on the web. Period. Phil and the Crew are my saviors!
Steve
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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#1681815 - 06/18/05 04:34 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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P.S. I thought very seriously about buying a Lawson L251, but the lead time on those was 4 to 6 weeks, and didn't want to have to wait that long.
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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#1681816 - 06/18/05 04:42 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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Congratulations!! Lettuce know how you like those mics!
P.S. I had to wait a YEAR for the Lawson L251. That's right, a year. I won the thing in a drawing, and it wasn't quite released yet. But it was worth the wait.
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#1681817 - 06/18/05 05:03 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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MAN, you are a lucky man, Ken. . . a FREE L251?!?! I suspect that you have paid them back many times with endorsements!
How come I'm not that lucky? I have to PAY for mine.
:-(
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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#1681818 - 06/18/05 05:42 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Philip O'Keefe
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and a Soundelux ifet7 (brand new in the box for $1400 on ebay).
I just noticed this... $1,400 NITB?  Was it from an authorized Soundelux dealer? And if so, who was it!?! IOW, that's a REALLY good deal!
This is the best forum on the web. Period.
You're way too kind to me Steve... but I will agree with you on one thing: we DO have a pretty darned good crew of people here.
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#1681819 - 06/19/05 07:07 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Originally posted by umkcprof:
MAN, you are a lucky man, Ken. . . a FREE L251?!?! I suspect that you have paid them back many times with endorsements!
How come I'm not that lucky? I have to PAY for mine.
:-(
I have definitely said many many nice things about the mic, but it's because I genuinely love the mic. The fact that they are the nicest people in the world and a wonderful couple certainly helps!!!
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#1681820 - 06/19/05 07:20 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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The magician who makes the mics.
I got a dark blue one instead of the gold one, but this is the L251.
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#1681821 - 06/19/05 07:22 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Yeah. . . well, maybe someday. . . but not today. . . they were too pokey on the delivery! So Manley and Soundelux got the order. . .
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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#1681822 - 06/19/05 08:23 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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KenElevenShadows
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You're getting a Manley and a Soundelux. You probably won't need the L251. Those should be very very good mics!!!!!
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#1681823 - 06/19/05 08:31 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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SpencerC
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Registered: 12/25/04
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I can only agree with the folks who like the 251. It's my favourite large condenser mic hands down. I don't use it on things like Mandolin though. For violin however? Nothing beats a Lawson 251 through John Hardy or Martech, with API EQ and ADL Compression. Sigh. There's a signal chain or a small house, take your pick.
Spencer
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#1681824 - 06/19/05 09:04 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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I spent a good half an hour talking to Mr. Lawson about his mics and his inability to supply me with one on a timely basis. . . he was, as you all say, very, very nice.
He had me convinced. . . $2500. . . and then I found the Manley for $3000 which was too hard for me to turn down. Testing tonight has gone very well. . . so far, so very good.
;-)
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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#1681825 - 06/20/05 09:51 AM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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Tedly Nightshade
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Registered: 01/03/02
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Umkcprof,
I would be sending that Manley to Manley and having them all go through it all and make sure it is totally up to spec. They provide great service.
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1681826 - 06/20/05 12:29 PM
Re: Microphone upgrade. . .
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umkcprof
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Posts: 158
Loc: Kansas City
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I'll take that under advisement. . . although the microphone sounds incredible. . . it really is in like-new condition, and was only used a few times by the previous owner, so I suspect I'm fine. If I DO have troubles, however, they will definitely get a call right away.
And, it is good to know that they provide great service. Soemtimes service after the sale is a bit hit or miss, isn't it?
:-)
Thanks!
Steve
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I am truly grateful for the wonderful information that everyone on the musicplayer site graciously bestows to me without thought of reward. You are all a credit to the worldwide web.
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