#1681300 - 05/30/05 11:21 AM
Karen Carpenter
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Anderson Council Sound
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Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Florida,UNITED STATES
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Anyone know what mic they used to record her voice? I've always enjoyed the sound and texture of her voice, and I know that 95% of it is her, but I'm wondering what mic/pre/compressor combo they used, in case I ever have a need to try and replacate that sound? I'm thinking maybe a Elam 251? I've never had the pleasure to have used one, so I'm only guessing.
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#1681301 - 05/30/05 02:34 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
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Registered: 05/23/00
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Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
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I think mostly...it was just her voice. 
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1681302 - 05/30/05 02:52 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8624
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Have you tried an ELAM 251? Maybe you *would* sound like Karen Carpenter!
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#1681303 - 05/30/05 03:29 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Philip O'Keefe
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Well, I'm VERY familiar with the ELA M251, and I'm not really convinced that was what they used. I'd be more inclined to lean towards the Neumann U47, due to its big bottom end, but since I never heard Karen sing live sans any amplification to know what her "raw" vocals sounded like, I'm merely guessing here. I also wouldn't be too surprised to find out they used a ribbon, such as a RCA 44 or 77 on her... but then again, ribbons were no longer the usual "go to" lead vocal studio mics by the early 1970's, having been largely replaced in popularity in that application by LD condensers. When my wife did her RCA stuff (same time period - circa 1971), they used a Neumann M49 for her vocals. A&M could have afforded quite the mic locker by that time, so it really could have been anything... but whatever it was, I'd almost be willing to bet it was placed in REALLY close, and that a lot of compression was also utilized.
I'm doing a little research, but so far I have not managed to come up with a definitive answer. I'll let you know if I find out anything for certain.
PS - Yes, it was probably mostly her voice...  and WHAT A VOICE!
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#1681304 - 05/30/05 06:48 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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offramp
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Registered: 10/31/00
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Loc: Golden, CO.
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You will NEVER be able to replicate Karen's voice.
It is said she literally couldn't sing a wrong note.
I am fortunate to have seen the Carpenters, at the Indianapolis Convention Center, in '70 or '71. It was my first concert.
Amazing show. Sounded unbelieveable, especially given the technology of live gear, at the time.
Damn...I just realized...it's raining like crazy outside, and it's Monday.
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#1681305 - 05/30/05 07:25 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Philip O'Keefe
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Does that get you down?
Sorry, but I just couldn't resist. 
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#1681306 - 05/30/05 07:31 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Philip O'Keefe
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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BTW, FWIW, I do agree - unless you had a singer who sounded just like Karen, you're not even going to get close to "that sound" - even if you replicate the signal path.
BTW, I was able to find out that they did their recordings at A&M (now Henson - no big surprise there, since they were signed to A&M), with basic tracks usually being done in B, vocals in C (which they generally preferred) and B, and the strings were tracked in A... after D was built in 1974, they also used that room, which Karen apparently really liked.
For those who have never worked or been in there, studio C at Henson is pretty small by "big studio" standards - I'd say it's probably a touch smaller than my place.
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#1681307 - 05/30/05 09:49 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Philip O'Keefe
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Okay, I have, from a reliable source, at least the mic information: Neumann U87, placed no more than 2-3" inches from Karen's mouth. If I can get any additional information on the rest of the signal path, I'll let you know. 
Thanks to Chris May for the information.
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#1681308 - 05/31/05 08:13 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Anderson Council Sound
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Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Florida,UNITED STATES
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WOW!! Thanks for doing all that research Phil! That answers alot. I'm a little suprised to hear it was a U87, I've personally never liked them on anything but overheads and V/O's.
The reason for my question wasn't to try and duplicate her voice, per se, but to duplicate that sound. I guessed it was a very close mic and liberal compression, you can hear the spit in her throat in some passages. But never a hint of sibilance or even proximity effect, and although it sounds compressed, you can't really hear the compression, it's just so smooth. THAT's something I always have trouble with.
Now of course, maybe all of that was just characteristic of her, but I thought maybe there was just some secret MO that was used to get that sound.
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#1681309 - 05/31/05 09:39 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8624
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Okay, so you can use a Neumann U87 and sound just like Karen Carpenter!!!!
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#1681310 - 05/31/05 11:38 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Tedly Nightshade
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Registered: 01/03/02
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Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
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Man, you don't see a lot of chick singing drummers, especially in the songwritin' way...
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"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1681311 - 05/31/05 01:12 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Murphman
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Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 67
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Originally posted by Anderson Council Sound:
But never a hint of sibilance or even proximity effect
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#1681312 - 05/31/05 08:17 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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dman
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Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 165
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Liking the Carpenters was not cool when I was a teenager. But my wife listens to them from time to time and I whenever sit and listen to them I'm blown away.
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#1681314 - 05/31/05 09:32 PM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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theblue1
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Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4537
Loc: Long Beach, CA
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I was very much into acid rock and early metal, never liked much of the Carpenter's overall music, but certain songs just kill me. Rainy Days and Mondays, of course. And Superstar. Ee-yow. I used to tell people I wanted to kill her husband and take over control of her career. When I finally realized Richard was her brother, I figured it might be easier and I might not even have to murder anyone.
Quite a few years ago I saw a bio of Karen or maybe the Carpenters (probably on A&E)... it became clear that Karen seemed to have little life (that was known, anyhow) beyond her music. She and her mother, it was said, doted on Richard.
The description of Karen reminded me a little of similar descriptions of Ella Fitzgerald, who also had a near supernatural musicality. Of course, Fitzgerald's immersion in jazz lead her to a far more aggressive musical stance. But it was said that, away from music, she had few interests. They were both, in a way, I guess, music geeks. God love 'em.
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#1681315 - 06/01/05 06:24 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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alcohol_
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Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 3457
Loc: Boston, MA USA
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The background voices of Carpenter songs are also unreal. They are so in tune they sound like an organ.
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#1681316 - 06/01/05 10:04 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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rc
Senior Member
Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 34
Loc: MO
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Hello,
Check out:
http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/fans_ask_7.htm
Look at any questions under the subject of “Studio” or “Technique”. Also look in the “Fan Ask Archive” under the same subjects.
Although, it does not address this specific question (the mic used), it does have a lot of interesting info.
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#1681317 - 06/01/05 10:17 AM
Re: Karen Carpenter
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Lee Knight
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Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1077
Loc: Encinitas,CA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by alcohol_:
The background voices of Carpenter songs are also unreal. They are so in tune they sound like an organ.
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