#1681106 - 05/25/05 12:59 PM
What do you think about this?
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A microphone that looks exactly alike, sounds the same, but costs $229 instead of $1399.
Mmmm..........
http://www.studioreviews.com/m16-460.htm
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#1681107 - 05/25/05 01:34 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Lee Knight
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I'm hearing some saying it's harsh in the hi end and isn't the same. I'd like to hear it myself though. 
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#1681108 - 05/25/05 02:05 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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sign
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I had some emails from Dan Richards, Dan says he has both and in his opinion the mics sound the same, the Apex is a little less noisier.
There are threads about the subject at PSW, Gearslutz and Homerecording, to name a few.
Some say the Apex sounds harsh and different from the Telefunken, but the opinion of someone like Dan is more important to me.
Peace, Han
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The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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#1681109 - 05/25/05 02:45 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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(RhythmInMind)
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thats really cool. even if it dosent sound the same. hell of a mic anyways
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#1681110 - 05/25/05 04:41 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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The new Telefunken definitely caught my eye at NAMM... I think Mitch was planning on reviewing it - he won the arm wrestling match - I never was very good at arm wrestling. 
I have not tried the Apex or the new Telefunken, so I can't comment about the relative sonic merits of each, but that page was pretty interesting - thanks for sharing the link!
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#1681111 - 05/25/05 04:50 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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KenElevenShadows
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That price for the Apex is just silly cheap. Even if it sounds somewhat close...
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#1681112 - 05/25/05 05:36 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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I agree Ken... but OTOH, "close" to what? Again, I still have not heard the new Telefunken. If it's a great sounding mic, and the Apex is the same thing (and IIRC, the new Tele is built overseas, so it's possible that they are the same mics, just rebranded), then that IS a great deal. If the Tele doesn't sound all that hot, it might not be a great deal for the Apex... even at the much lower price point. If they ARE the same (or extremely similar) mics, and the Tele sounds good, but not spectacular, and the Apex sounds the same (or extremely close), then IMO, it might be a decent deal for some people.
But as always, the only way to know for certain is to listen to the mics in question and decide with your ears.
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#1681113 - 05/25/05 06:48 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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sign
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Some people? According to what I've read about the microphones, they both come from the same manufacturer in China.
So the Tele is much more expensive because of the logo I guess.
What if the Chinese start making a microphone exactly like an expensive Neumann, with the same capsule, the same tube and the same electronics?
A $500 microphone that looks like and sounds exactly like the $4000+ Neumann?
Which mic would you buy then?
I'd rather have eight Chinese mics then for my $4k.
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#1681114 - 05/25/05 07:09 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Could the differences some people report be due to a different grade (not type) of tube? Telefunken USA says that the R-F-T M16 uses a "Circa 1980 NOS (New Old Stock) Phillips JAN 12AX7 WA vintage tube"... http://www.telefunkenusa.com/ I don't think most Chinese mics use anything other than inexpensive Chinese made tubes - although I could be wrong about that. But in any event, if they are otherwise identical, except for the tube, a tube swap would most likely be in order for the Apex.
It might be interesting to get Telefunken USA's input / response to this issue, and if they happen to view this thread, they have my permission to comment here on the topic if they wish. 
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#1681115 - 05/25/05 07:50 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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AudioMaverick
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That is one hell of a statement... inferior transformer and superior performance over the original. It really is going as low as $260 -- MusiciansBuy.com
It uses a 12AT7 tube -- Apex 460 Manual (PDF)
As much as I like saving money, I can't help but think that China is going to... Oops! I should save that for the other forum... :rolleyes:
{Edit: I should have said marginally superior. They are mostly identical.}
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#1681116 - 05/25/05 07:52 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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AudioMaverick
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... It might be interesting to get Telefunken USA's input / response to this issue...
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#1681117 - 05/25/05 08:03 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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If it's just a rebrand, and not a product custom made to Telefunken's specs, I doubt there is anything they can legally do... unless they have an exclusivity clause in their agreement / contract.
BTW, it looks like the Apex is going for as low as $229 .
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#1681118 - 05/25/05 08:08 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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AudioMaverick
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Oops... Same link, different price. I saw for $229 on Musicians Buy, and $260 on 2 others. The meds are kicking in, again. I pulled three tendons in the right shoulder. I am finding pain killers really screw with my already screwed up eye/brain/hand coordination...
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#1681119 - 05/26/05 09:22 AM
Re: What do you think about this?
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miroslav
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I'm up to my eyeballs in Large Di condensors!
Though I only have 4 that are tube mics...and a couple small di tube mics...
...for $229...man, that's very inexpensive!...and might be a consideration anyway.
Right now though...I'm using my ADK CE for 99.9% of my vocal work...and the tube mics kinda' sit in their cases...so I don't know if I will bite...even at $229.
But...I'm wondering how the Apex 210 ribbon mic is?
For $229...if it is good...it is a very inexpensive alternative to the AEA stuff and others.
Anyone try the Apex 210 ribbon?
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1681120 - 05/27/05 05:03 AM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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The Aphex ribbon looks physically very similar to the Nady ribbon, and IIRC, there is one or two other brands that also look just like it. Mitch has a review of the Nady version in the latest issue of EQ.
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#1681121 - 05/27/05 10:32 AM
Re: What do you think about this?
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KenElevenShadows
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AudioMaverick, get well soon.
I look forward to the reviews of this one...
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#1681123 - 05/27/05 11:50 AM
Re: What do you think about this?
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SpencerC
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Registered: 12/25/04
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I have an Apex 460, and have to say it's pretty darn good for the price. Would rather have a Lawson or a Sanken, but till that next big project comes in, the 460 will do fine. A lot of us here in Vancouver are buying them. I stand at the till at Long and McQuade and watch the six foot stack of 460 boxes get noticeably shorter as I talk to the pro audio guy. A quick mod that makes it sound even better is a $25 groove tube to replace the chinese tube. Takes a bit of manhandling (with gloves of course, no oils on the tube please) but it seems to warm it up a bit. The real big mod is to upgrade the connections and the cables, which are crappy. also the shock mount is made from the worst quality metal I've ever seen. More like silly putty, as the screw threads in a couple of twists if you're not careful. Can't find a third party replacement either. Any suggestions?
The ribbon mic is outstanding too. Might have to get it soon. The Apex pencil mics are average.
Spencer
ps there was a shootout with twenty different mics at a big studio in Vancouver using 149's u87's and a host of others. the accented top end on the 460 grabbed and fooled most ears, as it was the top mic voted for vocals. Yikes.
back to work
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#1681124 - 06/05/05 07:02 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Daniel Byrne
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Registered: 06/05/05
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I bought the Apex 210 Ribbon Mic a last week so I've used it quite a bit since then.
I think it's a great mic. I used it in a Mid-Side setup with an Audio Technica 4033 and it worked very well.
I also used it for a mono drum overhead, with one side facing down over the drums (horizontal) and one side facing up to a vaulted cedar ceiling. I duplicated the track and reversed the phase and got a HUGE drum sound that I very happy with. I wanted to see of the freq. response would suffer with the ribbon 'sagging' horizontally, but did not notice anything different.
It sounds like a nice ribbon mic on vocals about 6-8 inches from the mic.
The low frequency response is the best feature, as it picks up more lows than any mic that I currently own. How accurately it picks up the lows is unknown, but my ears tell me that it sounds good.
It is very responsive to a room's space (as it should be as a figure 8). I tested it out with a voice in a room in different positions and was very pleased with the detail it provided. For example, if the voice was in a corner on the other side of the room, it sounded like a voice in a corner on the other side of the room. I was really happy about this.
For 260 Canadian dollars it it well worth it. I've used the R84 and it's pretty similar to that mic. The construction seems solid, the case is nice. The mic cable is attached, which I don't like, but whatever. You could replace it easily with a higher quality cable, but I haven't had any shielding/noise issues so far.
All things considered, it's not as precise as an expensive ribbon, but it sounds like a ribbon mic, which is what I wanted. So if you want a ribbon sound go for it, as you can't beat the price. I haven't taken a look at the inside yet, but I will soon.
I like it enough to buy another for stereo purposes. I have a feeling that it would be great for a Blumlein pair setup. But I am going to see what the off/on axis response is like first before I bother.
I'll try to update my findings and perhaps some frequency/phase charts for you people, as the damn thing doesn't come with any real specs, which bugs me.
Take it easy,
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Daniel Byrne
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#1681125 - 06/13/05 07:57 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Looks like Telefunken USA has been heard from:
In addition to the news of its third consecutive TEC Award nomination, Telefunken is announcing an upgrade of the M16 to the R-F-T M16 Mk II. The updated version features a new circuit design based around a NOS GE JAN 6072 vintage tube and a custom transformer. All existing M16 customers will be given a free upgrade to the Mk II. Contact Telefunken to arrange the upgrade of your M16 microphone system. Tel: 860-882-5919.
Source.
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#1681126 - 06/13/05 07:58 PM
Re: What do you think about this?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Hi Daniel - welcome to the forums. Sorry I didn't see / respond to your post earlier.
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