#1663892 - 04/23/04 11:02 AM
Computer Game Audio
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Groeg
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Hi all,
I was asked by Phil to start a thread on game audio and who can refuse an offer from Phil, so here it is.
This is basically going to be a thread about audio in computer and console games. I am not an expert on all things audio, but I have been in the business since 1994 and have seen the progression this business has taken over those years. I would like this to be a thread of questions and ideas and hopefully I'll be able to answer some of those. I'm not exactly sure on where to start either, but will give a little run down on the tools I use and some of the procedures.
For creating sound effects I need a two-track editor and a multitrack piece of software. For the two-track stuff I have been using Sound Forge. I remember using Sound Forge when it was packaged as Sound Waves. Anyone remember that?
Now for the multitrack stuff I started out using Session 8 from Digidesign and have used almost everything that has been on the market since then. After Session 8 I used Cool Edit, Pro Tools, all forms of Cakewalk ( I wrote the music too so I used Cakewalk for sound design when they implemented the audio part)I even used some video application like Premiere and just this week I used Vegas 5-Trial to sync audio to an animation sequence. So the moral is to use whatever you are comfortable with.
The procedures differ from project to project and for the different platforms as well. I wish I could develop for PC titles all the time, but A LOT of people buy console games. PC titles usually allow you more memory to do cooler stuff. Here's an example. The current game I'm woking on is for one of the main consoles. Anyone want to guess on how much memory is allocated to sound per mission? How about 2 megs! Yes, only two megs is all I get. So you have to get creative with your use of sound FX. Now we are able to stream sound off the CD/DVD, but we only get 8 streams to use. Again, planning is a big part on how your finished audio will be heard.
I hope I'm not being too vague here, but I think once we get into some questions it'll be easier to follow. I will try and stop by on a daily basis, usually in the mornings. I'm in crunch mode right now getting ready for E3 in LA, so please be patient with me if I don't get back right away.
Thanks Phil for this opportunity and I hope I can answer questions that you guys might have.
Chris Groegler
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Sound Designer,
Red Storm Entertainment
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#1663893 - 04/23/04 10:08 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Phait
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Red Storm eh? Did you (or know anyone) that work(ed) on Ghost Recon? Fun game.
I'd been playing Hitman, and liked that soundtrack (www.jesperkyd.com) and seeing since I like games so much, and music - I realised I want to do music for video games. I'm quite sure this is what I want to do. I just need to take some music theory... but I love doing atmospheric music as well (which is what I'm kind of doing under my current musical moniker).
As far as game audio, that's another tale and I don't think I'll be doing that, but it is interesting indeed.
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#1663894 - 04/23/04 10:17 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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Excellent start Chris - thanks for posting that. 
Hopefully everyone with an interest in audio for computer games will pipe up with questions so they can learn from a real pro in the industry. I really do appreciate your willinness to share details about an area many of us are largely in the dark about - myself included.
Again, many thanks!
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#1663895 - 04/23/04 10:18 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philter
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I have a question- how involved are you with the in-game audio engine, and how does such a thing work? Do you deliver finished sound files and let programmers handle them, or are you responsible for working with some kind of audio engine dedicated to the particular game? Does my question even make sense?
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#1663896 - 04/24/04 01:01 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Super 8
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I did a bunch of sounds for Star Wars Jedi Outcast. These weren't official sounds, they were for mods that people were making. Just for fun.
I spent hours and hours on them. It was fun to play the game with new sounds. I gave the light sabers a slightly more animated sounds with more exciting 'clashing' sounds. I redid other sound FX too.
I could see doing that for a profit, but I'm pretty sure that there is no shortage of others who want to do the same thing.
I never did upload my sounds to any of the modding sites. I wish I had now, just so I could no that someone else might have downloaded them and enjoyed them. If anybody wants them, let me know and I'll send them off.
I never uploaded them because I always felt that they weren't quite finished yet. It's one of those things.....there is always one more little thing you could do that would make them a little better.
_________________________
Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1663899 - 04/24/04 06:17 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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bassix
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Ow and it wasn't sine waves but triangular ones by the way. silly mishap. it's been that long I guess.
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Stirring shit up since 1968
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#1663900 - 04/24/04 07:25 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Bunny Knutson
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So, how does one get into this line of work?
I currently produce ringtones for Motorola cell phones, using both MIDI and audio file formats. I've been doing this for about a year, so I know how to get the most out of a small file size.
I'm looking to break into the soundtrack field, either films or games, or both. How might I go about doing that in the gaming industry?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
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#1663901 - 04/24/04 08:23 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Phait
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Well what I did yesterday was fired off some questions to a few people in the industry doing music for games (Ravensoft, Jesper Kyd) so I'm hoping to get some replies. I should get some from Ravensoft, I e-mailed them when I had questions about being a concept artist (which was my whole idea then but that went to hell quick).
I'll post the answers here when I get 'em.
You should check out http://www.gamasutra.com it's all about the biz, the jobs, technologies, etc.
Also an interesting interview with Trent Reznor (who did music and effects for Quake 1, did some stuff for Doom 3 but sadly dropped out):
http://digilander.libero.it/ringofscars/art87.htm
http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xint63.shtml
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#1663902 - 04/24/04 09:15 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Salyphus
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My favorite form of game soundtrack is interactive audio that is relevant to context, rather than just a backing track and some sound effects.
A really great example of this was Rare in their heyday on the N64. Diddy Kong Racing, for example, would alter the instrumentation, style, intensity, etc. of the music based on game context, which REALLY enhanced the experience for me. It's a lot more work (and I know audio tends to get short shrift in the grand scheme of things, alas) but that is the type of sound design for games I would like to see more of.
Just throwing that thought out there This is a great topic!
Anyone going to E3?
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#1663903 - 04/25/04 09:45 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Super 8
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I know that there is no shortage of people wanting to get into game design....doing graphics or level design and so forth.
How is the water for people doing music and sounds?
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Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1663905 - 04/26/04 05:37 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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DJDM
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Thanks for posting this Chris. I'm interested in this topic and will be checking in from time to time to see what's up as well.
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#1663906 - 04/26/04 06:11 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Phait
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Everyone go here:
http://www.audiogang.org/
Now.
**EDIT**
Ok maybe not. You have to pay $50/year for the lowest tier membership option and you can't even access the damn forums without paying for a membership.
I thought this'd be the place to go cause I can't find anything else.
Guess I'm screwed.
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#1663907 - 04/26/04 06:37 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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I never uploaded them because I always felt that they weren't quite finished yet. It's one of those things.....there is always one more little thing you could do that would make them a little better.
Learn to let go you must.
I fight with this too sometimes. But eventually you have to say "it's finished - this is what it is" and let go of it - put it out. Unless it REALLY sucks, then maybe you should can it.  But if it's "little things" ad infinitus, maybe setting a self imposed deadline / release date can help you. Commit to a reasonable time frame for "release" and just stick to it.
This might be an interesting topic for another thread. 
It's cool, but games sounded better in some ways, when you had less to work with and had to be really creative with what you did.
You're on a roll Super 8 - another good thread topic. Were we indeed more "creative" when our tools were more limited? And if so, then why? And more importantly, what can we do to rekindle that creative spark?
Sorry for the interuption - We return you all now to the thread already in progress.
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#1663908 - 04/26/04 07:17 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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Originally posted by Groeg:
The procedures differ from project to project and for the different platforms as well. I wish I could develop for PC titles all the time, but A LOT of people buy console games. PC titles usually allow you more memory to do cooler stuff. Here's an example. The current game I'm woking on is for one of the main consoles. Anyone want to guess on how much memory is allocated to sound per mission? How about 2 megs! Yes, only two megs is all I get. So you have to get creative with your use of sound FX.And since I have not been a gamer since early PC game and Nintendo days, how long does a typical mission run? Now we are able to stream sound off the CD/DVD, but we only get 8 streams to use. Again, planning is a big part on how your finished audio will be heard. Please forgive my ignorance, but what's a "stream"? Is it the equivelent of a digital audio track or something else? And if it is basically a "track", what sort of bit resolution and sample rate? I'm assuming it's sometimes data compressed? What codec? And are those eight streams for ALL audio or just the sound effects? I hope I'm not being too vague here, but I think once we get into some questions it'll be easier to follow. I will try and stop by on a daily basis, usually in the mornings. I'm in crunch mode right now getting ready for E3 in LA, so please be patient with me if I don't get back right away.Well, it looks like you've got a good batch of questions to get you going - but don't feel overwhelmed. I'm sure everyone appreciates your responses and understands the time constraints you are under. We'll be patient. Thanks Phil for this opportunity and I hope I can answer questions that you guys might have.Thanks for sharing with us Chris. 
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#1663909 - 04/26/04 07:26 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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Oh, I thought of one more question Chris - what's the delivery format? When you finish a project and hand it off or turn it in or whatever, what do you give 'em? And who do you give it to?
Okay, I lied - more questions. Do you have to spot the effects to possible events in the game, or how does that work? Is that triggered by the programmers?
I guess I'm looking for a technical overview here - as I mentioned, I'm completely ignorant, but curious about the methodology.
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#1663910 - 04/26/04 10:32 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Groeg
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First off I'm sorry for not getting back sooner.
Philter, that's a great question. We are using an audio engine that is used in the game Far Cry as well as many others. The cool thing is that I'm paired up with an actual audio programmer and we will look at the design DOC of the game and see how we can change the audio engine to suite our needs for what we want to do. The engine starts out with many tools, but we can go in and change/add stuff to fit what we are doing with our game. I'm not a programmer so it's nice to be able to say, "hey, I would like to do this, can we?" and he'll look into it and see how we can do that.
I will go through a typical scenario of how I get sound into our game. This will be very basic, but should get the point across. Say I want to place a sound for a light that is humming. First I'd create the sound of a light humming; follow me? This would be a simple WAV file probably a 16 bit 8kHz file. Remember we need to keep file size low since I only have 2 megs to play with. (side note, actually it's more like 1.2 megs because some stuff HAS to get loaded into memory like weapon sounds, dialogue, footsteps, etc.) Next I will open a program that is proprietary to what we are working on and I will put the file into there. Then I have to create a bank within this program (I'll call it Placed Sounds) then add the light hum file to that. Then I have to activate that bank so it's seen by the other program. This other program is where I will actually place the sound into the game. I will load up a section of the game and find where I want to place the sound and then click where I want it to go. I have a few options on how this sound will play in the game. I can put the sound at any height and I have the ability to change the roll off perameters....how far you are away when the sound is no longer heard.
So now I will test how this sounds in the game and I launch the game and check out how it sounds.
So to finally answer your question  I don't just hand off a sound to a programmer and let him deal with it. There are situations where another person will place the sounds that I create and he is called a scriptor. I'll tell more about him later.
Chris
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Sound Designer,
Red Storm Entertainment
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#1663911 - 04/26/04 10:36 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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WFTurner
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How is the water for people doing music and sounds
same as anything else musical. If there's money
to be made there's no shortage of musicians.
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#1663913 - 04/26/04 11:09 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Groeg
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Hi Philip,
A stream is basically a channel of audio that can be played off the DVD. I can have eight sounds being streamed, played off the DVD, at one time. This doesn't mean I can only have eight sounds being played at one time. I can have other sounds that are always in memory too, like the weapon sounds, footsteps, that sort of thing. Usually music is kept at 44.1kHz and some of the other stuff is 22kHz. I try not to go below 22k for streamed stuff. Oh, and these would be WAV files that get converted to like a .ps2 file for the PlayStaion as an example.
Some things that get streamed are music, roomtones, and dialogue.
Oh, I thought of one more question Chris - what's the delivery format? When you finish a project and hand it off or turn it in or whatever, what do you give 'em? And who do you give it to?
I will create WAV files for all my sounds. For me to hear them in our game I have to run a batch program that converts them into the correct file format for PC and for console. The console stuff also gets compressed using a ADPCM compression.
Okay, I lied - more questions. Do you have to spot the effects to possible events in the game, or how does that work? Is that triggered by the programmers?
In one of my above posts I mentioned about scriptors. I will talk about them later (as I really have to get working this morning) This will explain how stuff gets triggered. Theire job is to "script" a sequence. Again, I'll post more on this later.
Oh, I haven't forgot about your question Super 8. I'll try to answer that later today.
Chris
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Sound Designer,
Red Storm Entertainment
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#1663914 - 04/26/04 04:18 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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DJDM
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Thanks for all of the info Chris! Gamasutra does indeed kick it hard. All they need is a Music wanted area and it will be complete.
I was all over it last year trying to see if there were any listings for musicians but alas sound and audio (as it is in the film industry) is a poor stepchild and nothing ever came up. I tried to approach some of the companies directly but they seemed uninterested in developing any kind of roster for composers.
Per your observation I guess I'll have to get to know some people if I want to get any work in this field.
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#1663915 - 04/26/04 09:25 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Phait
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Hey Groeg:
about the 8khz.. wouldn't that sound really bad? I know in Quake the sounds were 11 Khz and they sounded good... I guess you don't really need 44khz. Could you elaborat on this?
Also, as far as you placing sounds - wouldn't the mapper just import the sounds where they needed to in the map?
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#1663916 - 04/27/04 12:23 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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Phait, like I said, I'm totally clueless regarding game audio, but I would imagine they'd set the sample rate for the needs of the particular sound. If you have something fairly lo-fi and without a lot of need for clean HF reproduction (like the buzzing of a overhead light), using a lower sample rate for that one sample would be smart insofar as helping to keep you under the 2 MB limit per mission. And if you need a different sample to sound more hi-fi for a particular mission, you use a higher sample rate for that sample.
IOW, I think (I am assuming here - correct me if I'm wrong Chris) they can use different sample rates for different samples as needed.
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#1663917 - 04/27/04 09:43 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Groeg
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Phait, like I said, I'm totally clueless regarding game audio, but I would imagine they'd set the sample rate for the needs of the particular sound. If you have something fairly lo-fi and without a lot of need for clean HF reproduction (like the buzzing of a overhead light), using a lower sample rate for that one sample would be smart insofar as helping to keep you under the 2 MB limit per mission. And if you need a different sample to sound more hi-fi for a particular mission, you use a higher sample rate for that sample.
You are so correct on that one! Our audio engine supports multiple sample rates which gives us the flexibility to do what Philip described above. I keep everything at 16bits, but will play around with the sample rate. A lot of ambient sounds, lights, refrigerators, hum from an air conditioner, can be downsampled to 8k. Id say most of my stuff I try and keep around 16k and you would not notice the difference when you're in the mission that you were hearing an 8k sound. Now you would hear the difference if you A/B'd them, but the player never will never hear that sample out of context.
DJDM, There is starting to be a change in game audio as companies see the importance of audio in games. Companies usually outsourced all there audio, sound effects and music, and would have a programmer implement all those assets. So to say the least that audio was getting hardly any attention is an understatement. Now they are starting to form Sound Departments and keeping the audio in house.....which is awesome for people that want to get into the business. Like I said above, if you are interested in game audio, go to companies web sites and see what positions they have available. Even if you have to start out as a game tester (which isn't as glamorous as it may sound) it is a foot in the door. One of our producers here started out as a game tester and now he is producing AAA titles. It's kinda like starting out as a runner at a recording studio. You gotta start somewhere. And companies are more willing to hire within and bring you through the ranks than hire an unknown from the outside.
These are really great questions!
Chris Groegler
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Sound Designer,
Red Storm Entertainment
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#1663918 - 04/27/04 10:11 AM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Groeg
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Ok, what does a scripter do? If you are a game player you have seen a scripted event many times. Half Life had a ton of scripted events and scripted actions (Known as SE's and SA's from now on). A SE or SA is basically an event that is planned out ahead of time. Say you walk from one room to another. As you cross over into the next room a big explosion happens and knocks out the wall in front of you. This would be a SA. We planned for the wall to blow up after you reached a certain point. A SE would be where we planned an event to happen like maybe we would take control of the player character and show him walking down an alley and the camera pans up and shows that there is an enemy on a rooftop across the street. After this event the player would have control back and now know that there is an enemy nearby.
Make sense?
This is the only time I won't place sounds in a mission. I still will create the sound effects, but I will give it to the scripters to implement in the game. They have a lot of parameters as well when it comes to placing a sound in the game. They can tell a sound to play after the players character reaches a certain area. A good example is say you were walking down a hallway and you saw two doctors down a ways (kinda like in Half Life). As you get close the doctors they start to talk and move/walk to another room. That is all done by the scripters.
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Sound Designer,
Red Storm Entertainment
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#1663919 - 04/27/04 06:17 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Philip O'Keefe
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This is really interesting stuff...
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#1663921 - 04/28/04 12:01 PM
Re: Computer Game Audio
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Phait
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Groeg, do you know of any in depth forums for game audio? I've been searching, I found a couple but they have just a few posts! Something like conceptart.org, huge place.
Maybe we should start our own 
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