#1662324 - 03/18/04 11:51 PM
Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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MarkD
Senior Member
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 91
Loc: Australia
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Ok folks, here's my problem....
I run a DIGI001 on WinXP.
My normal single mic chain is MXLV67M to Mindprint EnVoice to Mindprint DI-Port to DIGI001 via S/Pdif.
I'm saving up money to upgrade. My original thought was to add a 2 channel high-level AD unit like Appogee/Mytek/Benchmark etc.
Then I thought maybe upgrade to the DIGI002R which will give me mid-level converters on 8 channels and 4 quite useable preamps.
Then a HD3 user here in Australia advised me that I would get a bigger step up in quality by keeping the 001 and adding a high-end preamp.
I was leaning this way until Digidesign started offering things like plugin bundles at a reduced cost for 002/R and Mbox users, but not 001. so the 001 is now officially dead-end!
So here are my options.
1) Purchase a 002R
- Pros: better converters across all 8 analogue channels, 4 quite usable preamps, ability to record at 96kHZ, portability option of firewire. Can sell 001 and put money towards preamp or ADDA. Or install 001 in second system for working on mixes at home.
- Cons: quality of preamps and converters still not as good as I wanted to gain, so therefore possibly not worth the money for a smallish step up.
2) Purchase high-end 2 channel AD
- Pros: Will make 2 channels of my entire signal chain sound better no matter what I plug into it.
- Cons: Only upgrades 2 channels and I'm still left with entry level preamps.
3) Purchase a high-end dual preamp (looking at Vintech, Phoenix, Earthworks, Buzz Audio etc.)
- Pros: Gives me 2 channels of excellent recording capabilities and is probably a bigger step up from the Envoice through a high-end converter. It will not be obsolete if I upgrade my recording system down the track.
- Cons: Again, only two channels are upgraded and I'm still stuck with the crappy 001/DI-Port converters. Stuck with either colored or clean depending on which way I go.
The other thing to note is that 80-90% of tracking is done with one or two mics at a time, but the need to use more simaltaneous inputs is deffinately increasing as I start to bring in a few paying customers.
So.... any opinions / advice / suggestions will be greatfully received.
Thanks
Mark
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#1662325 - 03/19/04 12:27 AM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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KenElevenShadows
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Consider:
1. Apogee Mini-Me (high-quality preamps and converters)
2. high-quality converters + FMR RNPs
Either way should offer a very nice front end.
If you needed mo' better converters and preamps than the 001 offers, you could add the PreSonus DigiMax for about $600 later on.
I went through this a little while back with the 001. I had nice mic preamps already, but ended up adding a used Apogee AD16 and 2 used FNR RNPs. I saved a lot of money and got 8 channels of high-quality converters and 4 high-quality preamps. If I upgrade the Digi001 to something nicer later, I will still have these items.
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#1662326 - 03/19/04 06:07 AM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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aliengroover
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Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Cydonia, Mars (By way of PA)
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I agree with Ken, plus budget in a high(er) end mic. Will make your upgrade that much more sweet sounding.
Peace
_________________________
If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
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#1662327 - 03/19/04 08:59 AM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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MarkD
Senior Member
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 91
Loc: Australia
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Let me clarrify. I can afford only one of those options. So it's a question of which to do first.
And while the RNP is a nice unit, I don't consider it to be in the same league as the other preamps I mentioned. I've had the opportunity to try one and didn't find it any better than my EnVoice.
Oh, and high-end secondhand gear is rare in Australia, so probably not an option.
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#1662328 - 03/19/04 09:12 AM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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SKI1
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Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 26
Loc: UNITED STATES
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MarkD, if the EnVoice is as good as the RNP then you probably should invest in better mic now.
If you will still be using the Marshall in the other options it will still be the weak link.
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#1662329 - 03/19/04 09:33 AM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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MarkD
Senior Member
Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 91
Loc: Australia
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I'm not saying that the EnVoive is "as good as" the RNP (although it very well could be), just that I couldn't hear that the RNP was any better.
And I'm really not interested in a new mic at this stage, although it will deffinately be on the cards down the track. I really believe that upgrading the pres or converters will have more impact at this stage.
Also I have access to borrow better mics. I mentioned the MXL simply because that is what I own.
These include a TLM103, 2x AT4060, 2x B&K 4007, and 2x AKG 535EB
But thanks for your comments, I do appreciate it.
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#1662330 - 03/19/04 12:43 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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KenElevenShadows
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by MarkD:
Let me clarrify. I can afford only one of those options. So it's a question of which to do first.
And while the RNP is a nice unit, I don't consider it to be in the same league as the other preamps I mentioned. I've had the opportunity to try one and didn't find it any better than my EnVoice.
Oh, and high-end secondhand gear is rare in Australia, so probably not an option.
And I purchased the FNR RNP used from this forum. It also can be purchased on EBay, where I got my other one.
That Envoice must be a quite a nice preamp...
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#1662331 - 03/19/04 01:03 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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Bobro
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Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 1467
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IMHO the Envoice is beautiful.. looking . Have had on for several years now, don't like the sound on vox and acoustic instruments, so the box works as basically a phantom power supply on a drum mic for me. Plus it seems to me that all kinds of preamps have a "bigger" sound than the Envoice. Gonna sell it.
It's just opinion of course, but I'd upgrade your mic, then the pre, then the convertors.
-Bobro
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#1662332 - 03/19/04 03:53 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 8586
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I really hear signal chains shine when it's used multiple times. When I use the L251 through a RNP into an Apogee converter, they do manage to stack up over 24 tracks nicely. The other mic preamp, a Peavey VMP2, is also nice for coloring and other things such as guitars or whatever.
In either case, it'll be interesting to see what other opinions and suggestion this thread turns up.
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#1662333 - 03/19/04 04:17 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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Rob Campbell
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Registered: 11/30/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Apple Valley Ca
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You might have a look at the MIO ULN-2. Two very good colorless mic pre's and two stellar converters all in one. I've been extremely happy with mine. Here's a link:
http://www.mhlabs.com/
Rob
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#1662334 - 03/19/04 04:31 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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Kendrix
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Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 2150
Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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Personally Id go for the better pre.
You have access to decent mics.
IMHO- A better pre will add more to the sound with the converters you now have than a better converter will matched with the so-so pre that you are not happhy with.
Then you can go for converters at a later time.
Assuming you will get there eventually this is the order in which Id make the upgrades.
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#1662335 - 03/19/04 04:49 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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I'd get the 002R if I was in your shoes.
A better A/D converter is going to improve things going INTO your DAW, which is great - I'm a big fan of a good front end. But OTOH, you need to be able to hear what you're doing, right? Which means a better back end too. I never particularly cared for the converters in the 001, and IMO, the converters in the 002 are quite a bit better. That includes the D/A converters. Would outboard converters improve on the ones in the 002R? A bit - sure. But IMO, you've got other issues to consider too.
A really nice set of A/D and D/A converters is a wonderful thing... but that does you little good if the quality of your mics and preamps are not up to snuff. While I really appreciate good outboard preamps from such companies as GML, Vintech, Manley / Langevin, Phoenix, Earthworks, API et al, it sounds to me like you're not going to be doing all of your work "two tracks at a time" - especially as your studio starts to move into working with outside clients; which means you'll be forced to seriously compromise by using not only the A/D converters in your 001, but also lesser quality preamps... and I REALLY dislike the preamps in the 001. OTOH, good outboard is something that tends to have a longer useful lifecycle than a lot of digital stuff, which seems to become obsolete incredibly fast. I'd certainly consider outboard mic preamps to be a better long term investment than converters.
The 002R will give you better converters, better preamps AND, thanks to the new bundled plug ins, some improvement in your software tools; all with one purchase. I'm certainly not saying that you couldn't get better preamps or better converters than what you'll have with the 002R - you most certainly can. But the ones in that product are a significant improvement over what you have now, and are capable of great sounding recordings IF YOU DO YOUR PART.
People frequently look for "magic boxes" that will increase the quality of their recordings - I've done this myself. But the single biggest improvement most people can make to their recordings isn't going to come from gear upgrades, but by "upgrading" their own skills and capabilities. Once you feel that you're capable of better recordings than a particular tool can give you, then a gear upgrade is really justified.
Don't get me wrong - a better "whatever" CAN increase the quality of your work - but then again, handing the keys to a Ferrari to a six year old isn't going to turn them into Mario Andretti. It's a "balance" thing, and I put that last paragraph down as a bit of a "reality check".
Anyway, I've bagged on the 001 a bit in this post, but I've heard some impressive recordings that have been done with little more than a 001 and a couple of microphones. But that's not what you were soliciting opinions about. You asked what would we suggest as a gear improvement purchase, and IMO, the 002R gives you an increase in the widest range of areas. It's not going to be the "best" in all of those areas, but IMO, the increase in quality across the board make it the logical purchase for someone in your situation.
Oh, and as far as 96 KHz, that may be a desireable feature to you, but FWIW, I'm still doing most of my work at 24 / 44.1 KHz - even though my studio is 96 KHz capable. But if you're going to go 96 KHz, be aware that you may need to upgrade parts of your computer - CPU and hard disk demands increase significantly at the higher sample rates.
Best of luck with your decision, and please let us know what you decide on. 
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#1662336 - 03/19/04 08:28 PM
Re: Advice/Opinions on my next purchase please
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ozland
Senior Member
Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Rye Australia
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Phil
as a former AW4416 owner, how do you reckon the AW4416 preamps, and converters compare to the Digi 002?
That is a box, that would offer much to his situation. Though probably nowadays, there are other options better suited overall.
As I was reading Mark's post, I was thinking all the time, yep, two tracks at a moment is ok, but soon...8^).
I think, if you are gonna run any sort of commercial operation, and you wanna have bands come thru (not just voice over work, or vocal overdubs) duo's, what ever, you have to be able to record more than two tracks at once. I would suggest at the very least 8. My usual is around 12-14 on the first pass.
I also think, its not the best to throw huge bags of money at high end mics and preamps, when your environment may not be up to it.
The differences between pre's, once you reach a certain level, can be subtle. And that subtlety comes at a very high price. Most of the time, I just dont think the price is worth any if at all gain.....pun intended...8^).
With some of the mid level equipment available now, you have an exceptional amount of recording power and clarity available to you.
In fact, its just a personal opinion, but I would prefer, uncoloured preamps, at the tracking stage. The more transperant the better. Get your colour further on down the mixing road, when you can see how your choices will effect the project as a whole.
Mark, have you considered going the Fostex D2424LV route?
If you wish, we can arrange for you to come and have a look at my AW4416/PC set up and see how it goes/sounds.
take care
Wiz
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