#1661851 - 03/05/04 10:52 PM
Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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cg1155
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Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 537
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
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On these forums we talk plenty about mics, pres, monitors etc. What I was wondering is are there a few guitars/amps/drumset/etc. that you consider to be the foundation of a good backline? Discuss.
Casey
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#1661852 - 03/05/04 11:08 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I dunno. I saw a Line6 amp at The Baked Potato in Hollywood before. That seems to make sense.
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#1661853 - 03/06/04 01:25 AM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 10009
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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Best modelor on the market - the Vox Valvetronics.
I've done side-by-sides with the VT and the Line6, and the VT absolutely embarrasses the Line6 for tonal quality and accuracy.
It's really incredible.
_________________________
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#1661854 - 03/06/04 04:17 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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DC
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Registered: 01/17/01
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Although I've got a couple of Boogies, lately my newly acquired Blackface Vibro Champ has been seeing a lot of action. It's got a very sweet clean sound at around 4 on the volume knob and crank it from around 7 to 10 for some very cool overdrive sounds. Putting some old Boog tubes in the 12AX7 and 6V6 made it roar.
My big Boogie guitar head (Mark IV with the symul class removed) into a 4-10' cab is getting some fantastic bass tones.
I'm customizing a home made guitar cab (built like a Marshall or Boogie 4-12" slant top cab). Eventually it'll have two alnico 10"s in the sealed lower portion and a Celestion 12 and a JBL/Fender 12" in the open back top section. Should have some good close micing options for entirely different tones. (I've got a 1-12" EV cab too).
Finally getting some half way descent sounding cymbals for my 60's Ludwig jazz (four piece) kit. I hope to do some basic drumming and figure out good micing techniques etc.
Finally got a 2nd quality mic pre so I've been working on micing acoustic in stereo. It's a whole new world from mostly direct or one mic recording. Had some very good luck with an SM-81 on the neck meets body and a 414 on the bass side. Been using a 30s Gibson F-hole for some things and a 72 Martin 0-16 N. Y. for others.
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#1661855 - 03/06/04 05:07 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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cg1155
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Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 537
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
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See DC, this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. I guess I don't consider simulators to be a "backline" per se, but ideas like loading cabs with different speakers to get different tones on the fly is a great idea.
Other ideas? Should you have a strat, p-bass or other guit on hand? If there was one guitar amp to have, what would it be?
Casey
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#1661856 - 03/06/04 07:41 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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KenElevenShadows
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I played somewhere that had a Marshall amp as a backline, and I felt that it wasn't very versatile. Maybe something like a Mesa Boogie or a Fender if you are not going to have an amp that is does simulations?
I've never played at a club that offered guitars as part of their backline, so I don't know. Probably a Strat or a Gibson of some kind that everyone is familiar with would be a decent bet.
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#1661857 - 03/06/04 10:03 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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Well Casey, "backline" is usually a live sound term, and that's usually the choice of the individual musicians as far as which guitar and bass amps, drum set, etc. As far as the studio goes, it's really subjective too. For example, I've resisted the idea of a "studio drum kit" because I want different sounds on different records. But I may eventually get something just so I have one for myself. I've heard some great kits over the years - Ross Garfield's got some stuff in his collection I'd give my... well, let's just say they rock.  One of the session drummers I hire fairly often just got a new Gretch kit that is HUGE sounding. DW's almost never disappoint. On a budget, some of the Pacific kits have really impressed me. But the two biggest keys to a great drum sound (IMO) are 1. well tuned and set up kit with good heads (something else Ross excells at) and 2. a great drummer playing 'em. Give me #1 and # 2 and getting a cool drum tone down just got a lot easier for me.
Amps? Well, I'd LIKE to have a bunch of them. As Ken was saying, I don't find the typical Marshall amp to be all that versatile - I think a Boogie or Fender is better in that regard.... but for that classic Marshall crunch, I think it's pretty hard to beat a good JCM800. Cool amps. Boogies are great too - I've owned four of them over the years... but I'm not a huge fan of the sound a lot of guys go for out of their Dual and Triple Rectifiers, but that's more in how they're setting them and not a fault on the amp's part.
I currently have a few amps around here... two old Fenders and Dryden Mitchell's JCM800. My Fenders are Rivera era amps - a Super Champ and a Princeton II. I gutted the Princeton and redid it from the ground up with first class parts all the way around - hand tested and selected metal film resistors, good caps, NOS Groove Tubes... and I added a kill switch for the negative feedback and a bridge rectifier to convert the tube filament voltage from AC to DC for quieter operation. You lose a Watt or two of power, but it quiets the amp up quite a bit, which is great for recording. I did the same thing to the Super Champ, but went even further - converting it from Class AB to Class A operation, running EL34's instead of 6V6's, redid the front end, etc. It doesn't do "clean" but it's a great crunch to distorted amp.
I'd love to have a Vox AC30TB. I consider them to be a two trick pony, but for that clean jangle and that modest crunch tone (can you say "Paperback Writer"?), they smoke.
Bass amps? I always go direct. I may use an amp along with it, but I very rarely use just the amp. I like the old Ampeg B15's a lot, and some of the SWR amps impress me. A good SVT is always nice. I've even had a couple of Peavey bass amps come through here and surprise the heck out of me, although I'm normally a tube amp snob.
Guitars? You can never have too many guitars. I've got about ten. I think having a lot of guitars around is a good idea because of the different tones. A Les Paul, Tele and Strat are, IMO, mandatory. A good 12 string electric (the Danelectro DC12 is an exceptional bargain) can be nice to have. I dig Rickenbackers too... not just for clean stuff either - my Ric 610 is one of the coolest sounding heavy crunch guitars I've ever heard - kind of surprising, but then again, the Smithereens used Rics with Marshalls a lot and got killer sounds.
Basses? Well, I'm the owner of somewhat small hands, and I find the basses I like the most are ones that fit my hands the best. I really like the Ibanez SR series. Not only are the necks comfy, but they sound good and are comfortable to "wear". A Ric 4001 / 4003 is always a nice option. And it's pretty hard to go wrong with a good J or P bass... but I do find the necks on most P Basses to kill my hands after a while.
I'm not sure if this is what you were after, but there's some of my preferences. 
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#1661858 - 03/06/04 10:27 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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ozland
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Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Rye Australia
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Re bass playing.....
I have a borrowed Music Man Stingray here, atm, which I am laying bass tracks down with.
Now, I am formost a guitarist, and have always struggled with the physical nature of playing bass, I have to say, the MMan is just sensational to play and it has a killer tone.
It actually makes me sound a better bass player.........a hard ask of any bass....LOL...8).
Wiz
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#1661859 - 03/06/04 10:52 PM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Oh yeah - I DO love the MM bass tone, I just struggle with the necks. 
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#1661860 - 03/07/04 12:12 AM
Re: Ok, we got mics, what about a back line?
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cg1155
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Registered: 03/28/01
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Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
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Yeah, I guess "backline" was the best term I could come up with. Thanks for the ideas.
C
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