#1661719 - 03/04/04 04:59 PM
Monitors, which and why?
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sign
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Yes, I know Phil's favorite is the S3A and I hope to get them soon.
But what are you guys using as your favorite monitor and why is it your favorite?
May be a matter of budget, some very cheap speakers can sound wonderful. I know a mastering engineer who uses speakers that are not even a B or C brand of speakers. These speakers could be found in the thick adver magazines from 'mail order firms'. Yet they sound pretty good.
The NS10's can still be found on many million dollar desks, some love them, many hate them.
I can't believe I've spent so many hours listening to these little monsters, since I have a pair of Transmission Line Speakers that sound wonderful.
So, my dear friends, let's talk monitors.
_________________________
The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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#1661720 - 03/04/04 05:10 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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WFTurner
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Seems everyone hates them but everyone uses them. Is this because they translate well to other systems?
If so I guess I want some.
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William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661721 - 03/04/04 05:31 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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sign
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William, the NS10's have a +7db peak at 1.5 khz and in fact they are horrible sounding speakers, but they're also sitting on my desk.
I have but one reason I've bought them a long time ago, because I saw them on so many pictures of big desks in even bigger studio's.
I use them with a sub now and that sound a lot better, but compared to monitors like ADAM and Earthworks they sound plain bad.
They seem to translate well, but I can't imagine why.
_________________________
The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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#1661722 - 03/04/04 05:51 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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djwayne
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I've heard there's two different versions of the NS-10, a later model with a modification to the crossover that eliminate that peak. That is the model I have. My biggest concern about the NS10's, is that they roll off at 100 hertz down to nothing, so you have no low end with them. So to compensate for this, I also use them with a sub, and another cabinet with 12's. Some people praise them, but my feeling is if a speaker can't reproduce a certain frequency range, ... what good is it ?? If ya can't hear it, ya can't mix it. But I still use them as they do cover the upper ranges well, and sound good with the other cabinets. Plus they look cool.
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Living' in the shadow,
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#1661723 - 03/04/04 06:00 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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WFTurner
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Ok so it appears I don't want NS10s. Certainly can't afford Adams so I'll watch for info on everything between. 
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William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661724 - 03/04/04 06:17 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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kylen
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OK - I'm saving my pennies for Mackie HR824 powered nearfields.
I'm not real technical on speakers but what I like so far is the servo control, wide (or is it tall ?) freq range, bass that is accurate as opposed to um bassy I guess or bushy, acoustic compensation eq for placement in rooms against walls or in corners etc., most every review I'm reading in my price range compares in some way to the Mackie HR824, more at:
http://mackie.com/products/hr824/index.html
These cost about $1300 and I've NEVER read a bad review or heard anyone BAD MOUTH these. So if you're goin to now's the time...hehe
Plus the freq response graph has a red curve - my wife has red hair - no brainer I think !
PS I currently am using (I think being abused more likely) Alesis M1 active after coming from Electrovoice EV100A's which are just for goffin around too I think...
ED: I forgot - my main application right now is home mastering along with mixing. I am using some room treatments also since there is definitely a room/monitor synergy shall we say that has to be accounted for. I kinda know what you mean about the NS10s and translation - you don't necessarily want something that 'sounds good' while you're mixing/mastering but will translate well. If you want to work on them for extended periods of time then I guess they have to sound reasonable but still translate.
Is anyone hyping their monitors with a digital EQ ? Not to fix room modes but to create a 'bump' in an area where you know your mixes don't translate - like an NS10 bump for example ? Or maybe part of the NS10 'mid hype' has to do with the particular cabinet/speaker physics and is hard to hype or steal...
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#1661725 - 03/04/04 06:27 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Matt.Hepworth
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The Mackies are just a controversial as the NS-10's. Many will swear by them (Miroslav) and many dislike them (where02190). I do not like the amount of bass they reproduce, but that's just one of many opinions. I am torn now between Blue Sky and ADAMS. I was looking at the S3A's, but not sure whether that will fit with my new situation.
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#1661726 - 03/04/04 06:33 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Kendrix
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I cant claim to have listend to all the ones around these days.
i cought my KRk 7000's about 6-7 years ago.
At the time they were highly recommended, hit my maximum budget and sounded the best of the few I wa able to listen to at the same time in the same room.
They do appear in many many studio pics in the mags - so people smarter than me have chosen them.
FWIW- I know my mixing space is very far from perfect. IN this case im not sure any better moinitors could help. I always listeen on a few systems before finalizing a mix. After listening on my monitors, main stereo, kids boom box and in the car i figure i cant be too far off.
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#1661727 - 03/04/04 07:03 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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schmoron13
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I use M-Audio BX5's. THey're small, dirt cheap (I got them at GC for $200....FOR THE PAIR), and never heard anyone complain about them. Don't know what range you're looking for, but not ony did Keyboard give them an award for being "perfect for apartment studios," BT uses 5 of them plus a sub for surround mixing, and if they're good enough for him...
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#1661730 - 03/04/04 08:09 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Well, everyone knows where my love goes...  And if I had $1,500 saved up for monitors, I'd definitely consider saving a tad more (under $500) and getting the ADAM P11's. IMO, they walk all over the Mackies. Not that I consider the Mackies bad, but they do feel light in the mids to me. And then there's the time delay between the woofer and passive radiator that Where is always mentioning.  Some people like 'em and some hate 'em. As always, it's "whatever works for you".
Anyone who wants my ADAM's can come and try to take 'em from me...  After years of searching and countless bucks spent on lots of different nearfields, I've finally found my perfect speaker match. 
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#1661731 - 03/04/04 08:12 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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KenElevenShadows
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I use Yorkville YSM1 NF monitors (passive) that are powered by a 100-watt Kenwood A/V stereo receiver. It also runs Radio Shack Optimus tower speakers that have a little more bottom end than the YSM1s. I use those to check bottom end, or to give my ears a break if I am editing, since they are located behind me and the different location seems to help my ears out a little from experiencing fatigue.
I am hoping to upgrade my monitoring system at some point, but am not sure what to get. I would like to get some ADAMs but keep running into money issues with those, so I don't know...I have heard the S3As and really like them a lot, but they are super expensive. I have never heard the lower-priced ADAMs, such as the P11As, as I believe they are called. Or actually, I think I did at AES, but was so enamored with the S3As that I quickly forgot about ADAM's other monitors.
I like how the Mackies sound but have never had any real experience with them and don't know how they translate. I've never done a mix on them.
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#1661732 - 03/04/04 08:18 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Jazzman
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I have a set of JBL 4208's for tracking/mixing. They have some bottom and sound good as my ear is trained to them. I also have a sub that I crank on for the lower pumpin as part of my mixing when fairly complete with the mix-down. I also use a set of AT headphones when mixing too.
I would love to get a set of SA3's or something in the "Adams Family"
Jazzman 
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#1661734 - 03/04/04 08:41 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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sign
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The problem is that a number of monitors sound awesome, but are so freakin' expensive.
I would like to have a couple of S3A's and a couple of Earthwork monitors as well.
I've been working today, editing some seven songs and I've used my latest monitor purchase; IMF transmission line speakers. These are vintage studio speakers from the late seventies.
http://imf-electronics.com/ALS40/
It surprised me that I didn't get any fatigue, even after hours of listening the sound was still sweet and fresh.
Every now and then I switched to the NS10's and that was shocking. I've never realized how nasty they actually sound, but I have made many mixes on them that translate very well, weird!
I know a studio colleague who uses Infinity hi fi speakers as nearfields and he is very happy with them.
_________________________
The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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#1661735 - 03/04/04 09:05 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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kylen
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The problem is that a number of monitors sound awesome, but are so freakin' expensive.
I guess mixing vs mastering might have diferent requirements I don't know - I'm kinda of a non-pro home recording type who wants to make a final great sound, hehe.
I want something I can sit in front of for hours (with breaks of course), listen to at varying volumes, don't have to sound any particular way but must translate well across the frequency spectrum, dynamics must be accurate - I guess that's transient response across all bands.
Maybe I just have to figure out how I hear a little better in an environment that requires revealing and accurate reproduction. Also I guess I'm still not clear on the idea that if it sounds really good it may not translate well...
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#1661736 - 03/04/04 09:11 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Throatsinger
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Heh, I seem to be the only using 'em, but I'm liking my Yamaha MSP 10s. Rowan dissed 'em, but so what. Got the pair for $700 new (the stock black ones, not the gorgeous maple sunburst veneer), from GC a couple years back. Much more listenable than the NS 10s.
I'd never been a fan of Yamaha stuff before, whether guitars, verbs, etc. But for the $$, in my room, the sound purty dang good, and seem to translate ok.
Steve Sklar
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#1661737 - 03/04/04 10:52 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Red Winger
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Originally posted by kylen: The problem is that a number of monitors sound awesome, but are so freakin' expensive.
One of my to-dos is to pop down to my local GC and audition a few. I've been looking at the Event TR8s and Fostex PM-1 or PM-2s as possibilities. Obviously, I've got to hear 'em first, but does anyone have views as to either of these compared with the options mentioned above?
_________________________
"I don't know anything about music. In my line, you don't have to."
-Elvis Presley (1935-1977)
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#1661738 - 03/04/04 11:28 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Well, after years of messing around with inferior product and recognising that I could not master with Yamahas, AMRs, Mackies, or even Westlakes, I bit the bullet and bout Dunlavys with a Cello amp. I built the room and treated it with traps and absorbtion and diffusion.
The difference? People who listen in the room now say that it sounds as if someone is playing in the room, not as if we are listening to a playback. And now I 'hear' speaker components in other systems, which can be quite distracting.
But I know that there are no excuses.... if a mix or mastering job sucks, its MY fault.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1661739 - 03/04/04 11:28 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Phait
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You all are probably talking about well known speakers and things I have no knowledge about. But I knew I had to get something beyond a 3-piece PC speaker setup so I bought some Edirol MA-10D's for $100. Not sure how they stackup to other better monitors but I like 'em. I shoulda got the 20 watted ones in hindsight, but I was being conservative with my money too.
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#1661740 - 03/04/04 11:52 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Matt.Hepworth
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Originally posted by Red Winger:
I've been looking at the Event TR8s and Fostex PM-1 or PM-2s as possibilities. Obviously, I've got to hear 'em first, but does anyone have views as to either of these compared with the options mentioned above?
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No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
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#1661741 - 03/04/04 11:53 PM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Super 8
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I chose the Roland DS-90a.
I chose them because they went with my VM-7200 mixer. Also, I had read some reviews that thought they were alright -not the best, not the worst, somewhere in the middle I guess. Also, I found a pair on Ebay that I could afford. Also, because I'm not 'Golden eared' enough for it to make a difference. My room is not treated in any way. I don't need Adams, I just need something good enough to get me in the ballpark. These seem to do the job.
Want to see a chart??? Thought you might...here ya go!
I wouldn't mind having a sub to go with them. But then I start wondering if I'm not defeating something by doing that. I want a flat response, not an 'enhanced' response like I would get from a stereo system. You learn as you go, I guess...
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Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1661743 - 03/05/04 01:07 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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kylen
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Thanks miroslav ! I'm kind of just crawling out of the primordial ooze so to speak equipment wise so the Mackies are at the top of my list to audition (when I get my move finished in about 3 months).
Cool chart Super8 - I like all those 8x10 glossies & stuff - they sound real good, hehe.
I like the Yamahs MSP10 idea for a 2nd set unless I keep the Alesis M1's for that, then there's always my radio shack maximus set for a 3rd pair. I guess that's all I need for my 'Good, Bad & Ugly' monitoring setup ! I guess it's a little to expect one speaker type to translate real well in my price range.
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#1661744 - 03/05/04 01:48 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Tedly Nightshade
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Seems reasonable to post this here on the Project board...
I have a friend who makes some pretty sweet little monitor speakers that run around $3-400 bucks a pair. The newest model may be more expensive, it's hard for me to tell because I get sweetie deals as a long time customer and a local and for taking part in the listening tests. These aren't Adams, but they are fantastic speakers that are highly, highly functional for exacting work. I've used a couple previous incarnations, but this last model they've cooked up is the best so far, and I would be much surprised if they don't smoke pretty much everything short of Adams.
These guys have also tested a *lot* of power amps, and of all the stuff they've tested the best sounding and most reliable amps are Pyramid "1000 watt" power amps. yes, the car stereo company! Can't speak for anything else they make but these "1000 watt" (really more like 175 w per side RMS) Pyramids are a dynamite combination with these speakers. They can handle all kinds of dynamics and are quite flat down to 30 hz at least, which makes subs pretty unnecessary except for maybe really high-level mastering work. I'm a pretty fussy character, but I'm impressed by these things! I prefer to use a couple Manley 440 power amps, and it does say something that I don't see anything amiss in using amps that cost me $4000 *used* (like twice that list) with speakers that cost roughly a tenth of that.
They just finished torture-testing and fine-tuning the prototypes, and I'm not sure exactly what the final price will be, but you could do a whole hell of a lot worse than using these speakers with a good-quality power amp, which would include the Pyramid "1000 w" but would not include anything they sell in the banjo depot except a Hafler or maybe some other thing I haven't seen in there.
FWIW, it's "bang for the buck" in a big way. Handmade with no advertising costs, no overhead, which explains a goodly part of how they're sold so cheap. Heavy MDF cabs that don't throw too much sound out the back and sides to reflect off the room.
I don't expect any bites because there's no glossy ads to go with, and of course it's not a nationally distributed product, but a monitor discussion on the new Project Studio board would be incomplete without the mention!
_________________________
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"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#1661745 - 03/05/04 05:15 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Of course the mention's welcomed Ted. Can you provide contact info in case anyone's interested in learning more?
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#1661746 - 03/05/04 05:21 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Beatmaker E.I.
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Hey another vote for Mackies! I have them and I love the sound
of my mixes. They translate well, but it's true you have to experiment with position, and also learn what they can do. Your room has alot to do with it too.
Overall, I'm very pleased.
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#1661747 - 03/05/04 05:52 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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sign
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Anybody who's familiar with PMC monitors?
It's kind of odd that the ADAM's are so popular in the USA and specially here on the forums, but in the Netherlands nobody is talking about them.
There isn't a distributor here, so I have to get them in Germany or Belgium.
I think (brother) Dave Bryce did and is still doing an exellent job.
_________________________
The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future.
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#1661748 - 03/05/04 06:11 AM
Re: Monitors, which and why?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Dave's a great guy.
And while I don't want to "take anything away" from Dave, and I feel the ADAM reputation for excellent customer service in the USA is directly attributable to dB's efforts, the speakers really tend to sell themselves.
In my case, Dave called me up and wanted to get my opinion on them. No pressure, no sales job. He just wanted my honest opinion. So we set up a day and he brought a pair down. I had a friend over who was visiting from Europe, and along with my family and Dave, we all just sat around for several hours, eating snacks and listening to great music. I played a few of my mixes on 'em too, and played with a mix a bit. It didn't take very long and I was thinking about selling off one of my 251's to buy a pair. Even my wife was immediately saying "you've got to get a pair of those".
I know I sound like an ADAM ad ( ) but they really did change my life.
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Sounds strange, but that's what a lot of people do.
