#1661507 - 03/02/04 06:36 AM
Your First Homework Assignment!
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Philip O'Keefe
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Yes, homework. Alright already, I gave you the first day with no homework, so quit complaining out there. 
Here's your assignment: I want you to pick a recording of a song. It would be best if it's not something too obscure or if it is, if you can provide a link to an MP3 or streamed feed so everyone else could also check it out.
Got a song? Okay - now I want you to listen to it. Then again and again. I want you to really listen to it. Listen "into" the song and pay attention to everything about it. Does the groove stay constant? Is the guitar that comes in at 2:10 a little sharp? How are the lyrics working? Do the instruments support that or play off them in a clever way? How does the arrangement work? What is conflicting? How is that mix? What is working for you and what would you have done differently? Take notes. You'll need them later.
Now, how do your songs hold up? I do this comparison with some of my favorite albums and find myself saying "ouch" a lot more often than I'd like. But the point is, you're bound to learn something when you seriously listen to a song and not only analyze it but feel it. And you can apply that to YOUR stuff. Actually, as many people know, referencing great recordings while working on your own can provide a great frame of reference.
So what I want you to do is listen to a song. Oh yeah, I want a report on that song too. Tell us about the song and describe some of the stuff I mentioned above - time, tone, recording, arrangement, emotion, etc. I'm sure we can all learn a lot from this.
And since I believe that you should never give out an assignment that you wouldn't be willing to undertake yourself, I'll be making a few posts on this too.
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#1661508 - 03/02/04 10:26 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Bunny Knutson
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I brought you an apple, teacher. 
The song I chose is "2 + 2 = 5" from Radiohead's Hail to the Thief.
This song is the first song on the album, and therefore sets the tone for the entire record. It's also the song from which the album derives its title. There are three Movements to the song.
Frankly, the start is very rough. You hear the pop from a guitar chord being inserted in the left channel, while the guitar player in the right channel flicks his pickup switch between "on" and "off" pickups, and taps his strings with resulting electrical noise. Obviously, all this stuff is left in the mix intentionally, suggesting that the record you are about to hear is at least somewhat ragged and rough.
Then someone starts a casio-esque electronic drum sequence, with a steady hi-hat and a somewhat irregular pseudo-samba kick. Immediately, the hard-panned guitars kick in. This is the First Movement.
The (Left) guitar makes a rhythmic pick-scraping noise on the eighth-notes with heavy reverb, while the main rhythm guitar (hard-panned Right) plays the harmony with arpeggiated chords.
In addition to the lead vocal, which is panned at 12 o'clock, there is a harmony background vocal above the melody, slightly to the left. The reverb on the vocals is heavily modulated, and the reverb level is increased on longer notes and certain words, like "scream," for effect.
At 1:22, the kick drum drops out, and we finally hear some arpeggiated chords coming out of the (L) guitar, and realize that it's an electric 12-string. Nice! This is the part with the extra 'verb on the word "scream."
Then, at 1:56, the acoustic drums kick in and the song starts seriously rockin'! The vocals get super emotive in this part, as Thom Yorke sings, "You have not been / Payin' attention / Payin' attention / Payin' attention!" Great stuff! This is the Second Movement of the song.
Then, only 30 seconds later, a completely new part starts, launched by a very rhythmic guitar chord progression. This is the Third Movement. A cool synth part is introduced, panned to the right. There is a very nice breakdown at 3:01, where the drums and bass drop out while the guitar and vocals chug along. When the drums and bass come back in, it's very impactful.
Throughout the song, the bass guitar is hardly noticed, but is purely complimentary to the music; perfect for this song.
The tones throughout the song are perfect, I think. They're certainly not how I would have tracked/mixed them, but that's one of the points of this assignment; to listen to other people's techniques, and absorb.
The emotion in this song is potent and engrossing. And the mixing/production really compliments the song.
I'll probably have more to add to this, but it's very late, and I've already listened to this song about 15 times tonight, and I must go to bed. 
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#1661509 - 03/02/04 02:25 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Curve Dominant
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I'm listening to "Computer World" by Kraftwerk.
I noticed the drums NEVER go out of time. VERY consistent.
Umm, yo Teach...what wuz the assignment?
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#1661511 - 03/02/04 02:42 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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halljams
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I've been listening to Fair warning, Van Halen.
Damn i love that album.
The bottom is so well put together.
I can't and don't believe that is Mike Anthony on bass.
Arranging is soo important. But in this case, engineering played a huge role. The sounds are just awesome and fit together like a jigsaw puzzle.
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#1661512 - 03/02/04 02:55 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Tedster
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I just happened to do just that with Grand Funk's old "Closer To Home" tune the other night. Great song, but absolutely chock FULL of little (and not so little) gaffs. Little nitnoid things that probably bothered Farner, Brewer, and Shacher for years down the road, but no one else really noticed (unless they were trying).
I'll re-listen and do my report.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1661513 - 03/02/04 03:05 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Griffinator
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Listening to "No One Knows" from Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf.
First thing that strikes me about this song is the wonderful use of dead space to enhance the groove.
Drums are dead on tempo - it's Dave Grohl, I'd expect nothing less. His fills are super-tight, complex, and entertaining.
The guitar riffing is a little sloppy, but it doesn't detract from the song - overall it's a very raw track, so this blends in really well.
The bass is definitely understated, simple lines through the verses, but they create such a powerful lock with the drums. Obviously playing with a pick, and through a really gritty amp, which creates a nice connection between the drums and the guitar.
I love the vocal inflections - first the arhytmic lead delivery - his light, laid-back inflections are in stark contrast to what is a pretty heavy track. Then there are those wonderfully airy (and slightly-out-of-tune) little background "ahhs" - although I hate the way they stuck the backing vocals squarely in the right channel instead of spreading them out. The subtle whispering is really nice, too.
It almost feels like the drums and the vocals are what carry the track - the guitar and bass are just kinda pushing the groove along, until we move into the post-2nd chorus bridge/solo section.
The lyric is really pretty cool, except the chorus - "and I realize you're mine/indeed a fool of mine" - rather blase. My favorite lines come from the second, fourth and fifth verses - some really cool imagery here:
2nd verse: "We get these pills to swallow/How they stick in your throat/Tastes like gold"
4th verse: "I drift along the ocean/Dead lifeboats in the sun/And come undone/Pleasantly caving in/I come undone"
5th verse: "Heaven smiles above me/What a gift here below/But no one knows/Gift that you give to me/No one knows"
Hard to complain about anything here, except perhaps the cymbal tone - he used some extremely thin crashes that have a lot of sizzle, without any of the power that the rest of the track demands - especially when contrasted with the huge snare and tom sounds he generates.
_________________________
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#1661514 - 03/02/04 04:56 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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RobT
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I heard you were giving out homework. Dang!
_________________________
RobT
Famous Musical Quotes: "I would rather play Chiquita Banana and have my swimming pool than play Bach and starve" - Xavier Cugat
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#1661515 - 03/02/04 05:45 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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the stranger
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Halljams,
Nice avatar, man. Would you believe I'm using that avatar on another forum?
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#1661516 - 03/02/04 06:03 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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WFTurner
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I've listened to a fellow who calls himself Gnomusy , 'David Callabero'
for quite some time. I found his stuff on MP3.Com before it went down, in my continuous search for people that make electronic music in more contemporary,classical and jazz oriented ways. This is basically my quest
in searching for music to listen to. It's what I'm studying to be able to do in my own way someday in the realm of digital and electronic music.
This chap has an irish, celtic and new age influence about him. The song I'm linking to, Footprints On The Sea was the first piece I clicked on. The new age type of spacey solo piano in the beginning normally would have been a cue to hit the little X on my media player but I didn't. I don't like to be stereotypical in my apreciation for genres but generally I find new age composers find a pretty little sounding phrase and then take three or for minutes to totally bore you with it. This fellow surprised me. He took his theme and presented it to me numerous times,seeming to build on it in some way, never quite in the same manner. At times he works his way back to a more minute orchrestration but he never makes me have to listen to the spacey solo piano again. That's new age I can like. My ambitions are a bit more full orchrestration with subtle implements of jazz and classical with ever changing themes... this piece makes me feel it's ok to embellish with a little new age from time to time.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661517 - 03/02/04 06:12 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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the stranger
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I do this with everything I listen to. It gets difficult to listen to music as a fan once you really develop the ability to listen with a critical ear.
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#1661518 - 03/02/04 09:10 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Philip O'Keefe
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Well done everyone - especially Bunny, WF and Griff.
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#1661519 - 03/02/04 09:17 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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djwayne
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Okay, I picked out a song, one I could find a link to. "Hard Time Killing Floor" by Buddy Guy, from the "Blues Singer" CD, which just won a Grammy Award for Best Blues CD.
This song is just Buddy Guy, vocals and acoustic guitar. Very simple but yet, very steamy, very bluesey.
I've use this song as a comparison while doing mic checks with a Superlux CM-8HA large diaphram mic I recently purchased, micing a Martin D-18 Guitar. By adding a touch of reverb, I was able to get a very comparable sound.
And that's what I was looking for, a natural sounding acoustic guitar. For something a little more exotic, I add a little chorus, and go for that "Treetop Flyer" by Stephen Stills.
You can hear Buddy Guy's "Hard Time Killing Floor" here:
http://www.hyfntrak.com/buddyguy/thirdparty/
_________________________
Living' in the shadow,
of someone else's dream....
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#1661521 - 03/02/04 10:15 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Dak Lander
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Roger McGuinn, "JAMES ALLEY BLUES" is my pick this time around.
A really good example of straight acoustic music with no drums or bass but still keeps the tempo with the instruments.
I really like the way the guitars inter-twine & I gotta figure out a couple of things.
How to get THAT guitar sound & how to move the sounds of a particular instrument around in the mix.
I'm sure it's got something to do with duplicating a track and changing levels and panning to get that movement & probably a darned slow release on compression.
Pretty good vocal but doesn't fit the melody and tempo at times. Kinda out of step, but not really, if you know what I mean. 
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#1661522 - 03/02/04 10:42 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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djwayne
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DAK,
That Roger McGuinn song sounds like a two tracks of a 12 string guitar. I have a Taylor 12 string that sounds very similar to that. It was modified from a standard 12 string by switching the Low E, A, D, and G harmonic strings with the lower strings. Similar to what gives the Rickenbacker it's unique sound. I had the nut on my guitar filed out so that the bigger strings would fit in the smaller slots. Once we strung it up, I had the same sound guitar as you'd hear on "Turn, Turn,Turn", and "Mr. Tamborine Man" by the Byrds.
I got the idea to do the modification from watching Roger's McGuinn's instructional video.
_________________________
Living' in the shadow,
of someone else's dream....
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#1661523 - 03/03/04 12:58 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Kendrix
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IM cheating.
I happened to hear an old classic Animals track- "We gotta get out of this place" on the radio on the way home.
I listened closely- only once (sorry teach).
However, I noticed that:
The vox was tinny.
The reverb was harsh and brittle.
A few spots had the vox flat.
Sound was generally poor.
BU vocals were terrible- tinny & one dimensional.
However, the arangement was good - not too dense and a great dynamic build to the chorus.
Lyrics had some strong points.
Lots of emotion in the vox despite some pitch issues.
Bottom line: a great song/record despite the very poor sound by todays standards.
I dare say my sonics are much better.
Whats my grade?
I crave feedback. 
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#1661524 - 03/03/04 01:01 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Dak Lander
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Yeah, thanks DJ. I was pretty sure about the multiple 12 stringers. I'm sure that's how they get the guitars to inter-weave between left and right like they do but it's more the attack of the strings I'm looking to get.
I have an old Ventura Bruno 12 string that has a real clang to it & I've been able to get decent recordings of it but not been able to get THAT sound. It's the same with my six stringers. They record clear as a bell but it's not quite what I'm looking for & I think it's got to do with compressing the track & tightening up the release. I want to get the strings dying a bit quicker.
I've got some Greg Brown tunes I got from some of his Prairie Home Companion shows and I'm playing around with them in my recording program & seem to be making some progress. Once I get them where I want I'll re-load some of my personal recordings and tweak them the same way and see if I can get the sound I'm really looking for.
As far as the Byrds Ric 12 string. I've seen pictures of the main one and the backups & it looks to me like the string layout is normal, with the octave string & low note string from low E to high E with the B and high E octave and low note the same. I was under the impression that they were laid out with the low note string & then octave string progression.
Is that how you set yours up?
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#1661526 - 03/03/04 04:04 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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not coaster MODERATOR
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most people who hear that song "who can it be now" don't know the depth of the band who plays it. men at work has gotten more mileage out of simple drum beats, bass lines and well placed clean guitars then any band on the planet. very good use of reverb (ala 1983) on the guitars, with each overdub in it's own sonic space. my guess is strykert did all the studio guitar dubs even though colin is a very good player too. colin hayes sings great but uses the space echo to get that patented sound.
they use subtle effects to really fill things out, like pre-midi sync moog lfo's that ride along with the bass line, and vocal harmonies in the 5th and octave position.
the sax is bright and full, greg ham never wanks away. the tune i listened to was "overkill" from my cargo vinyl LP featuring the original band.
i try to model my mixes after these guys.
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#1661527 - 03/03/04 08:08 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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MarkD
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Loc: Australia
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Hey Cereal
Would I be bragging if I mentioned that I jam and gig regularly with John Rees (Men At Work's Bassist for those who don't know). He lives 5 minutes drive from my studio in Country Victoria, Aust.
And also, when Ron Strykert was still at school, he played in my father's old time dance band. Pride of Erin anyone?
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#1661528 - 03/03/04 09:57 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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WFTurner
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I loved Men At Work. I took one of their songs, hell if I can remember which one, on a cassette to rehearsal with a country band I was playing with back then. Gave it up after a couple of hours. Ended up sounding like Men At Work doing Ray Price. Wasn't pretty. They we're some real traditional country cats.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661529 - 03/03/04 09:58 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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djwayne
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Dak, Yes, mine is set up like this,
Low E (Fat String) High E (Skinny String),
Low A (Fat String) High A (Skinny String),
Low D (Fat String) High D (Skinny String),
Low G (Fat String) High G (Skinny String)
Two B strings
Two High E strings
_________________________
Living' in the shadow,
of someone else's dream....
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#1661530 - 03/03/04 11:07 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
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Originally posted by stranger:
I do this with everything I listen to. It gets difficult to listen to music as a fan once you really develop the ability to listen with a critical ear.
Though I do it subconsciously quite often...I haven't had a chance to pick a song and then provide a "written report" yet...
...sorry teach, life gets in the way sometimes!
Now...that said...I think people are also too analytical...spend way too much time breaking up a song...editing the shit out of it…etc.
Another lesson worth learning…again...is how to just hear the whole song...sense the vibe...see the big picture.
I've mentioned this in other threads...that the traditional British engineering/production approach is to go for feel...where as here in the US it's more about accuracy...
...though this is not an absolute for everyone, just a general observation.
I also believe that most of the great stuff done here in the US...stuff from the 60's 70's and early 80's...was also more about feel...but the last 20 years a lot of recording seems to be done with a very surgical mentality...and I think that the technology is mostly to blame for that.
So...kick back, relax, whatever it takes to "un-focus"...and then put on some of your favorite music...and don't try to pick out every little detail...just let it "wash over you"...see if you can just find the vibe of the tune. 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1661531 - 03/03/04 11:29 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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djwayne
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Originally posted by miroslav: Originally posted by stranger:
I do this with everything I listen to. It gets difficult to listen to music as a fan once you really develop the ability to listen with a critical ear.
Though I do it subconsciously quite often...I haven't had a chance to pick a song and then provide a "written report" yet...
...sorry teach, life gets in the way sometimes!
Now...that said...I think people are also too analytical...spend way too much time breaking up a song...editing the shit out of it…etc.
Another lesson worth learning…again...is how to just hear the whole song...sense the vibe...see the big picture.
I've mentioned this in other threads...that the traditional British engineering/production approach is to go for feel...where as here in the US it's more about accuracy...
...though this is not an absolute for everyone, just a general observation.
I also believe that most of the great stuff done here in the US...stuff from the 60's 70's and early 80's...was also more about feel...but the last 20 years a lot of recording seems to be done with a very surgical mentality...and I think that the technology is mostly to blame for that.
So...kick back, relax, whatever it takes to "un-focus"...and then put on some of your favorite music...and don't try to pick out every little detail...just let it "wash over you"...see if you can just find the vibe of the tune.
Recently, I've been getting into Loreena McKennitt's music, not only for the enjoyment of it, but to see how it's done. For instance the song, "The Old Ways", has many different parts, such as a haunting vocals, intense fiddle playing, pounding drums, wailing bagpipes, and a room shaking bass, heart wrenching lyrics, the chords on the guitar, the harp, blended together makes a finished work of art.
You can hear a little sample of the song "The Old Ways" from the CD entitled "The Visit", here:
http://www.quinlanroad.com/sounds.html
_________________________
Living' in the shadow,
of someone else's dream....
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#1661532 - 03/03/04 04:40 PM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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RobT
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Tune: We Are The Music Makers
Band: Aphex Twin
Nutshell Synopsis:
Listening with and without headphones reveals tight drum programming. The detuned sounding Bass Line locks perfectly with the drum beat. The arpeggiated melody line has quite a bit of light airy ness to it. I always wondered what FX were used on the melody and harmony keys. The processed vocal phrase gives the whole song an of the wall (not MJ) quality. Reverse high-hat sounds compressed also. It all locks quite nicely. Sounding like a page taken from the Kraftwerk school of production. Nice, tight and intergrated. I always aspire to that interlocking groove!
_________________________
RobT
Famous Musical Quotes: "I would rather play Chiquita Banana and have my swimming pool than play Bach and starve" - Xavier Cugat
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#1661534 - 03/06/04 06:00 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Sir Basil
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I'be been analyzing everything I hear for years. It's almost worth the time spent in a studio to learn production from dozens of engineers. It's also been invaluable in programming synthesizers, tho I do need to learn how to set up a compressor for best reseults. I'll see about an analysis soon.
_________________________
This keyboard solo has obviously been tampered with!
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#1661535 - 03/07/04 09:27 AM
Re: Your First Homework Assignment!
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Philip O'Keefe
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All right, who has still not turned in their homework? Oops... I haven't turned mine in yet... I'm surprised no one has called me on it yet.
It's coming... I promise. No, wait - the DOG ate it... yeah, that's what happened.
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. It is very similar to what I want to achive. Results will have to wait for couple of hourse since I'm still at work 
