#1661260 - 03/01/04 10:56 AM
Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Wewus432
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Registered: 03/12/02
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I think that's a major choice facing any Project Recording Studio. There's so many great options either way, it's really hard to decide.
So what do you use and what do you recommend?
Congratulations on the forum Phil. I think it's going to be a great thing. You've always been so great about sharing your knowledge and we all appreciate it. I'd love to do some recording in your studio there. I like that place a lot.
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#1661261 - 03/01/04 11:24 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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aliengroover
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Registered: 03/25/00
Posts: 793
Loc: Cydonia, Mars (By way of PA)
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I worked for years in studios with 1" and 2" machines and ADATs, as well as using the standalone DAW (788, VS1880) at home. Now I've been using PT at home and, for me, it's the best option (i.e. computer-based recording in general). The flexiblity offered, the automation, and the sound puts you light years ahead of where we were just a few short years ago.
Having worked on PT since it was SoundTools and having had the opportunity to use TDM systems, it was not desirable for me to switch to CBR (computer-based recording) until a)computers got fast enough to competently run a ton of tracks and plugs since I couldn't afford a TDM system, and b)I could find an affordable control surface or mixer to use it (as little mouse as possible, thank you). I have, and haven't looked back.
The idea situation in a "for hire" studio is having both a professional analog multitrack and a DAW. It gives you the best of both worlds in terms of sound and flexibility for you and your clients. In a home/project situation, unless you can afford both, it makes perfect sense to go the CBR route, especially in terms of cost and flexibility, as well as, of course, sound.
Peace
_________________________
If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking 'til you do suck seed!
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#1661262 - 03/01/04 11:51 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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I've had rather good luck with my current DAW-based setup.
Athlon XP 2100+
256MB RAM (getting ready to ramp up to a gig)
EIDE RAID (2 40GB 7200RPM drives) for audio
7200RPM 22GB boot drive
Windows 2K SP3
Sonar 2.2 (about to go 3 Producer)
Terratec EWS/88D digital I/O card
Outboard:
Mackie 16VLZ-Pro (saving up for an A&H GL3300)
Alesis AI3 A/D/A
It's nothing high-end, but I've had some pretty solid results with it.
Now, if I could only round up some competent musicians... :rolleyes:
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#1661263 - 03/01/04 12:01 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Monkey Mouse
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Registered: 01/30/01
Posts: 391
Loc: Bloomfield, NJ
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I think that everything is moving toward computer based recording, regardless of level.
There are so many advantages of using a PC/Mac to record - versatility, space concerns, mutliple use capability, price concerns.... Its a lot to ask of a computer, but with the increasing speed of processors and the ever-evolving software/interfaces, it is coming to the forefront.
I personally use Cubase VST 5.1 on a 1ghz P3 - gonna drop the $ for a Athlon 64/Sonar 3.0 package in about 2 weeks. My interface is reuseable (Delta 1010) as is my collection of outboard synths and processing boxes. So its just a PC and software upgrade to keep current. I use all of my outboard stuff and never had a problem - I may even pick up a few soft synths to round out my sound palette (Oddity and Minimoog).
With the current crop of software like Nunedo 2.0, Cubase SX 2.0, DP, Sonar 3.0, and Logic, you can do 90% of Protools capability on a shoestring budget. Things are only going to get cheaper and better in this respect.
_________________________
Live 6, Battery 3, Project 5, Atmosphere, Albino 2, Minimoog V, Oddity, Nord 2X, Proteus 2K
***I can't play for sh*t, but I can sequence like a muthaf*ck*r***
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#1661264 - 03/01/04 12:02 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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WFTurner
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Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 1128
Loc: PA, USA
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Just by circumstances I've come by the skills of digital recording by developing a DAW. For me it's a great solution. If I actually had actual people or clients to work for I often think I'd like the security of a stand alone hardware system for tracking. For me a DAW works great and I'm learning at the speed of light. The few times I've recorded other people the computer seemed to want to do that murphy's law, hookie pokie kinda magic only computers do. It must be comical for some cat to be sittin there watchin you scratchin your head and whisperin cuss words and swearin this machine is always rock solid.
I guess if it was possible I'd like to have both.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661265 - 03/01/04 12:12 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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miroslav
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Well…the best choice of equipment depends a lot of how you are using you Project Studio.
I was never crazy about the term “Project Studio”…only because it stated the obvious with defining any specifics.
When you hear “Commercial Studio” or “Home Studio”…it kinda’ already gives you an idea of what is happening in each of those places…or at least to which level of sophistication they are probably at.
But…a “Project Studio”…well, that could be anything.
I know that a lot of folks armed with a “porta-potty” and SM57 will undoubtedly prefer to call their rig a “Project Studio” rather than “Home Studio”…and I guess that’s OK…whatever gets you through the night. 
Though for me, the term “Project Studio” suggests a more developed environment, capable of almost all the tasks that a “Commercial Studio” does…but probably ion a smaller space, and one that is not just for-hire facility…a place that may be more personal and intimate without being intimidating.
A “Project Studio” can be just “your” own space…where you work on your own projects, but at a full-production level…or it can still be hired out, though maybe not at the 24/7 pace…or without access to as many high-ticket toys and of course…without the high costs either.
I guess, the name “Project Studio”, to me, suggest a working environment where all who are participating, have a more direct/involved interest in each of the project…
…a place where the clock may not be always tick-tick-ticking away and where the pressures are as intense.
So…back to the original question…
Stand-alone recorder or computer based system…?
Either one…or both…depending on your needs. 
I have a computer-based system made up of (3) Laya24 boxes, running Samplitude 7.2 as my main DAW app.
But, I also still have my G-16 analog tape machine…and mostly all outboard gear VS plug-ins.
I considered a stand-alone digital recorder...but I felt that computer-based gave me more options…and I can get as many tracks as I will ever need out of this native system.
I think that a “Project Studio” allows you to fine tune your rig to how YOU work…where as a “Commercial Studio” kinda’ needs to cover all/most of the options in order to cater to a wider audience.
Seems like a “Project Studio’s” strong suit is first the vibe…and then the gear, though many CAN have a lot of high-ticket gear.
But…a “Commercial Studio” almost HAS to have high-ticket gear…and lots of it…
…and you may need to bring your own vibe! 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1661266 - 03/01/04 01:35 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Reverend Rhythm
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Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 911
Loc: Woodstock, GA
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I'm in the process of changing over to a software-based system, and my worst problem has been facing the fact that all my hardware, paid for with my hard earned money is worth very little now. The silver lining is that the software is just as cheap.
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David
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#1661267 - 03/01/04 02:08 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Archer
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Registered: 02/05/01
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Loc: sisters,OR,UNITED STATES
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For me it's a no brainer. Computer all the way. I wanted a laptop specifically and I am now researching a firewire audio interface. One of the reasons is to be able to go mobile and record people and intstrments that are not currently available to me. A laptop and firewire device makes this much simpler for me.
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Me and my two dogs, Remington and Winchester
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#1661268 - 03/02/04 04:01 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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There's advantages and disadvantages to both, and it really depends on what your needs are and your own preferences.
A stand alone hardware DAW can be a very stable setup, and you've got just one thing to "learn". And having everything in one "package" can be quite handy. And as far as mobility goes, they're hard to beat - although the latest generation of laptops and Firewire audio interfaces have similar mobility advantages, there's still a few more "pieces" to hook up.
The visual aspects of a computer setup can be either a boon or bane. It's certainly easier for editing, but then again, some people tend to start relying on their EYES more than their ears just as soon as a computer monitor comes into the equation. Computers are also easier to upgrade and have the advantage of being able to do more than just recording your music. But they do require extra hardware (fader boxes, audio interfaces, etc.) and can be more difficult to set up and maintain for some people.
There's lots of other things, but I should leave some things for everyone else to talk about. My advice: Decide on how you prefer to work and what is important to you, and then start a thread and ask us to make some suggestions insofar as what will best "fit" your particular needs.
Good topic Wewus - and thanks for the comments. And yes, we need to hook up again and do some music sometime. That would be fun. 
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#1661269 - 03/03/04 01:38 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Super 8
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 8150
Loc: Loves Park, IL
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I need to be mobile, so I chose 'free standing'. I have a couple of VSR-880's mounted in a four space rack. They are each digitally connected to my mixer via an R-Bus cable. When I need to take them on location, I just pop off the cords (2 R-bus & 2 power), grab the rack an go....I don't even take the power cords with me, I have separate cords in my bag. It takes me 2 seconds. I carry a laptop bag stuffed with RCA to quarter inch cables, and can run directly off the mixer at the recording location.
If I needed to bring my own mixer along, it is equally portable. I use a Roland VM-7200. It's a modular mixer comprising a control surface, and a rackmounted box containing all of my connections. It's pretty slick how they all connect together.
I think computer recording certainly has some great advantages. Obviously editing is one of them, although I am starting to wonder if editing hasn't become TOO EASY....but I guess it's up to the individual to exercice some taste.
For me, it was versatility and portability that sealed the deal. I wanted something that could be the front end of a recording rig, and also be the front end of a PA system. Money IS an object, and everything I own has to be able to pull double duty -I do this for love, not money.
Also, even though computer based systems are becoming more portable, I don't want to deal with a bunch of delicate little connectors, and tempermental software/OS's when I'm out in the field. I want to plug it in, turn it on, and have it work, because my time is usually limited and I'm not always able to babysit the machine.
I love computers, but they frequently piss me off.
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Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1661270 - 03/03/04 03:17 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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not coaster MODERATOR
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Registered: 03/27/01
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i've gotten hooked on softsynths, and most dedicated daws don't give you built in midi which i also need. the trade-off is i put up with the occassional crash. i think it's my stupid pc324 card. i need to upgrade.
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#1661271 - 03/03/04 03:21 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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Originally posted by Super 8:
I need to be mobile, so I chose 'free standing'.
One of the upgrades I'm planning to my system is to replace my clunker 17" CRT with a flat-panel, and get a rackmount (5U) case for my box.
Suddenly, my computer system is totally portable, and, with my HDR24 as a backup unit, I've got the best of both worlds!
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#1661272 - 03/03/04 06:30 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Bobro
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Registered: 01/06/01
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Originally posted by Griffinator:
One of the upgrades I'm planning to my system is to replace my clunker 17" CRT with a flat-panel, and get a rackmount (5U) case for my box.
mixer for tracking mounted on top of the case (16HE)and the computer mounted at the bottom, there's space in between to stick the 15" TFT (wrapped in a towel). Mics, cables, convertors, wine bottles, etc., go into a shoulder bag so with someone on the other handle of the case, or just myself in a pinch, it's a portable studio.
So my studio recording space ranges from Baroque halls to an underground bomb shelter.
-Bobro
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#1661273 - 03/03/04 10:26 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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ViLo
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 8773
Loc: Dallas, TX. Estado De Mexico!
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I sold my AKAI DPS16, and I'm building a computer for my EMU 1829M
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#1661274 - 03/03/04 07:16 PM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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WFTurner
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Registered: 12/11/00
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Loc: PA, USA
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Originally posted by ViLo: I sold my AKAI DPS16, and I'm building a computer for my EMU 1829M
Specs make it look like it could be the cat's meow.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#1661275 - 03/04/04 11:48 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Kendrix
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Registered: 09/06/01
Posts: 2150
Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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I agree there is no right answer that applies to everyone.
FWIW I disagree tht PC wins based on space/footprint. If I used a PS baased DAW Id still watn a control surface and msuch outbpoard gear to get the sound right.
For me I value the stabillity of my standalone Yammy AW4416. I also use the PC for sequencing.
I will eventually migrate to PC based sampling from my EMU hardware unit.
Dealing with windoze setup and latency issues, rapid SW version updates and, most imprtantly, wanting to use the better outboard effects and pres and compressors (versus plug-ins) puts me on the standalone side of the fence.
This could eventually change.
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#1661276 - 03/05/04 06:16 AM
Re: Free Standing Or Computer Based Recording?
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Dasher
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Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 457
Loc: Monterey, CA
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I chose to go with a Mackie setup - b8b console with HDR 24/96 24-track recorder. This works in conjuction with my DAW, a Digital Performer setup on a G4. When I'm recoding MIDI tracks, I track to DP, but I do all the live instruments to the HDR. Then when all the overdubs and fixes are done, I comp the ttracks and transfer them to DP for mixing/processing. This way, I avoid disk fragging on the DAW and can get a higher track count or plug-in count. After finishing a project on the HDR, wipe the disk clean, after finishing on the DAW, back it up and wipe the audio disk.
Mostly these days, all my work is done as MIDI tracks, so I stay in DP, but I still have the option when needed, of an outboard recorder.
Works for me, even though I had to add a Frontier Apache to the system to handle optical cable patching between the MOTU 2408, the d8b and the HDR24/96.
Dasher
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It's all about the music. Really. I just keep telling myself that... The Soundsmith
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