#1661085 - 01/09/07 07:39 PM
Finished room - some pics etc.
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MarcusMax
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Registered: 12/15/06
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Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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For anyone who may be interested, I have just completed treating my small home studio. I know how helpful I found pics to be so I humbly submit some photos of my project in the hope that they may be of some help and interest to anyone considering taking on the job.
I went with a very simple design both to reduce the workload and to keep overall weight and mass down, given both the size of the room (10X6X8) and the extent of the treatment needed. It is therefore fairly rough and ready but I am very happy with it and the difference in the acoustics is simply amazing. All the traps and absorbers are made with double thicknesses of 50mm, 1000x600mm rockwool panels. I kept the washers outside the material for simplicity but I actually quite like them! They sort of break up the monotony of the endless muslin. Sort of...
For a before-and-after comparison, there are some photos of the un-treated room in a previous thread I started: 'Advice on small studio treatment'.
Many, many thanks to both Ethan and Bryan for their help and input over the last few weeks. I couldn't have done it without you. The information and advice you offer is absolutely excellent and is a wonderful resource to those of us who want to take the DIY route. 
Framework for corner bass trap:
Wrapping a 100mm (4¨) thick rockwool panel (2x50mm) in muslin:
Wrapped panel:
Bass trap panel on framework:
Completed rear corner bass trap:
View of completed front section of room, including corner bass traps, side 1st refection absorbers, ceiling absorbers, front wall treatment etc. Just visible are the side wall-ceiling traps which are present in all 4 corners. The panel that partially covers the window and the small ones in front of the computer monitor are not fixed in and can be removed when I am not working, or when I want to breathe!
Back wall not shown (probably enough pics here) but has a panel at rear reflection points as well as corner traps.
Please feel free to comment (sort of!). No, really..
I do have a couple of questions though (duh..!)
1. The monitors are mounted on stands at the rear (of each speaker) and wooden units at the front. (This seemed the only way to work out the equilateral triangle and 38% placement of the listening position.) They are de-coupled using Auralex Mo-pads. Here is a photo of one of them:
Am I likely to get problems with reflections off the wooden surface directly in front of the monitor, i.e. the unit it is standing on? If so, should I place a small piece of rockwool on that section of the unit?
2. I have some pictures on the walls, some un-covered oils and a couple with plastic / glass over them. Any problem with these re. un-wanted reflections? Is it best not to have anything on the walls apart from the panels?
3. Anything else I've missed / done wrong? (Do I really want to know?!)
Thanks again for any replies and I hope the pics are fun.
Mark
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#1661086 - 01/10/07 02:18 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
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DeafBigEaredEddie
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Registered: 09/29/06
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I really enjoyed your pics. They are fun!!!
I wouldn´t worry about your pictures and such on the walls. If they were mirrors you wouldn't see the speakers reflextion, right?, so you won't get direct reflexions from them.
I guess that the 38% sitting position is desirable, but if you move the speakers and yourself just a few inches to avoid the reflection, it'll probably be alright. Try it, and if that's no good go back a step and put something on the surface (rockwool f.e.).
Besides, how did you notice the improvement after the treatment? Was it worth it?
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#1661087 - 01/10/07 06:49 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
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bpape
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Registered: 05/18/05
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Loc: Wildwood, MO (St. Louis)
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Keep your seat at 38%. In a room that size, a few inches is a ton. The equalateral triangle thing is a good starting point but not necessarily set in stone and many times is tweaked based on your preference and the specific monitor used.
If they have to stay on what they're on, I'd just lay something soft and thick on the table in front of them to provide a bit of a pad for any reflections. Won't do a ton but will take the edge off anyway.
Bryan
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#1661088 - 01/10/07 10:16 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
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MarcusMax
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Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Thanks Bryan and Eddie. It sounds like it'd be okay to move the speakers around a little to accomodate better mounting but best to leave the listening position intact? That's fine, though I'll try them first where they are with some padding or a rockwool 'cushion' or something. I positioned them based on Ethan's recommendation that they're probably best used as near-field as possible in this room so I now have a 33¨ near-field equilateral triangle with the seating position at 38%. As long as the present mounting is not going to cause any real problems, I'll work with that and see how it goes.
Glad you enjoyed the pics Eddie. Good to hear about the pictures on the walls. I haven't yet had a chance to really test the room under working conditions but the ambient acoustics are noticeably different: much flatter with an almost complete lack of any reverberation / echo. Pretty dead, which is what I was aiming for. I didn't do any measurements before treating it for reasons stated elsewhere so I can't do any comparative testing.
However, judging from the feel and sound of the room now compared to how it used to be and to other rooms in the house, it is completely different so I'd say yes, as far as I can tell it was definitely worth it. I'll have more to say when I start working again in it.
Thanks for your interest.
Mark
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#1661089 - 01/11/07 02:56 PM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
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DeafBigEaredEddie
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I'm glad to hear your satisfied. I'm still preparing myself for doing my basement, making a multipurpose studio. I'm gathering as much info and opinions as possible. Here I've learned that an inch is a ton.
Someday I'll have the guts to start doing something to my basement.
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#1661090 - 01/16/07 11:16 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
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MarcusMax
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Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Go for it Eddie. I've been working away in the room over the last few days and the quality of the acoustics is just SO much better: clearer, more neutral and somehow a lot more defined. I can hear more detail and the stereo image seems far more distinct; etc etc.. I'm sure it's not perfect but it's certainly a whole lot better!
I'd absolutely recommend doing a job on your basement using all the wisdom and expertise you've probably already gleaned from these forums. All the best with it man. 
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#1703247 - 02/16/07 09:42 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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mr_curly
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Great work! Just out of interest, what kind of screws did you use? I'm having trouble finding anything suitable to go all the way through 4" rigid fibreglass.
Cheers
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#1866437 - 01/04/08 05:49 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: mr_curly]
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MarcusMax
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Hello again. A year down the line, I have another few questions concerning this project.
1. I have just acquired a 2nd monitor (screen) to work with an extended desktop. The only feasible place to mount it is beside the right-hand speaker where the lamp is in the photo above. Unfortunately, this is right in front of the 1st reflection point on that side. In a room this size, will that cause problems with those reflections or would the effect be minimal? (I read somewhere about near-field monitoring reducing the room effect). If it is a problem, I can simply take the monitor down when I am doing crucial mixing but that kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place!
2. I am generally happy enough with the quality of the mixes I am getting using this setup while in the room. However, thay don't translate all that well to other places, i.e. the car, the hi fi etc. They sound a bit muddy, indistinct, washy and a little too bassy at times, quite different from in the studio. I guess this means that either the acoustic treatment is not quite up to scratch or else my mixing skills suck (a distinct possibility!) I wonder if anyone would have any suggestions about what might be the problem?
3. I suppose the best way to proceed is to do some room measurements and find out what the problem frequencies are. What would be the simplest and least expensive way to do this in my particular situation, i.e. this specific room? Also, any guidance on how to interpret those results? I'd like to keep this as simple as possible since I haven't done it before.
Thanks in advance.
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#1866461 - 01/04/08 06:48 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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MarcusMax
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One more thing: The chair I'm using has a high padded back that supports my head. It is 19" wide. I have placed the listening position at 38% from the front wall forming a 34" equilateral triangle with the speakers. The chair obviously adds more absorption but is this desirable in this position?
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#1866531 - 01/04/08 08:20 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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Ethan Winer
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Registered: 06/12/00
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Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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Unfortunately, this is right in front of the 1st reflection point on that side.
Yes this is a problem. But you knew that, right? I suggest putting the monitors one above the other.
I wonder if anyone would have any suggestions about what might be the problem?
The only way anyone could know is for you to measure the room. See this:
http://www.realtraps.com/art_etf.htm
--Ethan
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#1866568 - 01/04/08 09:47 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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MarcusMax
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Loc: Dublin, Ireland
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Hi Ethan
Yes, I did think the monitor placement would be a problem but wasn't sure by how much. I'll look into stacking them as you suggest and if that's not possible I'll just take it down when mixing.
Your article is obviously very relevant but pretty complex and hard for me to understand with such limited technical knowledge. Never was much good at the physics side of things. I will go through it again til I 'get' it some more.
I think I have an older version of FuzzMeasure.. I'll have to check that on the Mac. I don't have Leopard yet so it will have to do if I decide to use that. ETF is a little beyond my budget at this point. How about using Room EQ Wizard to do the measurements? How would you rate that programme?
Many thanks,
Mark
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#1866978 - 01/05/08 05:28 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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MarcusMax
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Ok. I've taken some measurements using FuzzMeasure 2. I used my Rode NT1 at the listening position with full room treatment in place (minus the new monitor of course!).
Here is the result. Sorry it's not as clear as it might be but the numbers are just about readable:
I'm not exactly sure how to interpret these results and I know this is a very partial analysis, e.g. there is no info re. modal ringing etc., but hopefully it shows something useful.
It looks like I have some dips in the bass frequencies at about 17, 23, 40, 88 and 170. Above 300 there seem to be several dips and peaks. I wonder if anyone could comment on these results and what they mean as I am not sure where to go from here. If I need to do more detailed testing, would REW suffice?
Thanks 
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#1867013 - 01/05/08 07:22 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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MarcusMax
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Here is a bigger view of the frequency response graph with the smoothing reduced to minimum:
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#1867964 - 01/07/08 06:50 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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Ethan Winer
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Never was much good at the physics side of things. I will go through it again til I 'get' it some more.
I'm not into physics either, and the good news is you don't need any math to understand ETF and Fuzzmeasure.
How about using Room EQ Wizard to do the measurements? How would you rate that programme?
REW is fine.
--Ethan
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#1867985 - 01/07/08 07:28 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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MarcusMax
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Thanks Ethan. I take it there isn't enough information in the graph above to make any comment?
I'll try to get to grips with one of these programmes and post some more detailed results, possibly in a new thread as the title of this one is no longer related to my enquiry. Meanwhile, if there is anything that can be gleaned from the measurement I've already taken, I'd appreciate it.
Rgds,
Mark
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#1868005 - 01/07/08 08:08 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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gullfo
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the most noticeable thing to me - after 120hz you're down -10db and dropping fast - i.e. no bass. so you're probably dialing up everything from 120hz down and thats likely why you're finding things a bit muddy, and you may be compensating for the missing bass with adding 300hz and 500hz for the dips in response.
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#1868048 - 01/07/08 09:19 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: gullfo]
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MarcusMax
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Hi Glenn. Yes, that makes sense. I don't know if you had a look at the photos of the room earlier in this thread but I have treated it pretty comprehensively with DIY broadband / bass traps using 4" thick rockwool. It is a very small room, 10' x 6' with an 8' ceiling. Previous advice and reading suggested a lot of treatment, making it pretty dead as the reflections in such a small room would not be helpful. So I have treated all 4 corners floor to ceiling as well as the ceiling corners front, back and on the sides. I have also treated the 1st reflection points, put panels on the back and front walls and hung a large cloud over the listening position. The result is a LOT of panels!
I went for this 'more is more' approach as it seemed the best thing to do given the size of the room. Now I'm wondering if there could be too much treatment? Is that killing the bass frequencies as you point out? I have understood Ethan to suggest that you cannot have enough bass trapping, especially in a room like mine but have I created an overly dead room? However, perhaps I am mis-interpreting your comments.
If I am right, would it be advisable to take down some of the panels and if so, which ones?
Many thanks for your help.
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#1868058 - 01/07/08 09:46 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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MarcusMax
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Just to keep track of this project, here is a link to the thread where I was developing the approach to the treatment described above. I followed the guidelines I was given as best as I could but perhaps I over-did it, or got some important details wrong?
Acoustics forum thread 'Advice on small studio treatment'
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#1870660 - 01/11/08 07:05 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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MarcusMax
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I am intending to do some more room measurements. Right now I am looking into changing my monitors as I think my old Roland DS-30A's may have been contributing to the problem (they aren't great on the bottom end). So I am going to be auditioning some Dynaudio BM 5A's and some Adam Artists in my room over the next week or so. I have a dealer who is willing to lend me this gear to try out at home! Pretty good service eh?!
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#1871206 - 01/12/08 05:38 AM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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hey_mavis
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I have the Dynaudio BM 5A's with an M-Audio Sub (the sub is not the greatest) but the Dynaudio speakers are great! They don't get super loud tho (50 w for treble and the same for bass). I don't find they have a lot of low end either, (compared to bigger speakers that is) BUT they are very very accurate and sound fantastic.
I can't comment on the acoustics, so I wont  I'll leave that to the pros.
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#1871542 - 01/12/08 05:13 PM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: hey_mavis]
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MarcusMax
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That's good to hear. So far it sounds like they can go plenty loud enough for my small room. Also the low end sounds very strong, much more present than ever before - A/B'ing them with the Rolands really show up what I've been missing all this time. Shouldn't need a sub in this room(?) The Adams also sound superb so it's going to be a tough choice though I'm leaning toward the BM's. They have to be run in some more so I'm reserving judgement for now. I have them for a week or two; that should be plenty of time.
Very glad I've taken this step before making any changes to the room. It may be that the problem was in the speakers all along, given the room treatment. Still, all (or some!) will be revealed when I do take measurements; just waiting til I decide on which monitors to buy and also for my SPL meter to arrive so that I can run REW.
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#1871599 - 01/12/08 07:00 PM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: MarcusMax]
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hey_mavis
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I guess it depends on the type of music you are doing in regards to the bass, the Dynaudio speakers are very good especially for the price.
I do a lot of stuff that is for dance floors so to the 'big bass' aspect is v important. For other types of music I don't think you'd need a sub woofer really.
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#1872055 - 01/13/08 03:58 PM
Re: Finished room - some pics etc.
[Re: hey_mavis]
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MarcusMax
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Thanks for your input 'hey mavis'. My music is a mix of rock, jazz, electronic and acoustic so I think the bass response on the BM 5's is adequate, in fact very good, for my needs. The Adams don't have the same punch but they are brighter; they seem to have a clearer top end and a little more space in the overall sound. Now if I could combine the two..
The good news is that both sets of monitors are 'making' the room sound a lot better. It will be interesting to see if my mixes improve in terms of translation when I start working seriously with them, after I've measured the room and hopefully fixed or at least improved any problems.
Edited by MarcusMax (01/13/08 03:59 PM)
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