#1647857 - 04/21/04 07:28 PM
a few questions
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jamesway
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Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 14
Loc: pa
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Hey Ethan, I'm about to build a control room. Dimensions roughly 12, 17.5, with a 7.5 foot ceiling. I can't wait to try your panel design, but your beep bass plans call for an 8' high panel. If I were to drop the height to 7.5 or 7' on the deep bass panel would it make much of a difference? Would decreasing the other measuresments in ratio help as well? I tried out that cool little modecalc program, it allowed me to really play with the dimensions rather than study them. 7.5 being the max height I can reach, I got some modes close together at 100 and 200 for length and width. If I chopped off a foot from the design would it still catch these frequencies or should I double up the fiberglass thickness, or use thinner front panel wood. Another question, I've read that moving your speakers, backs facing close to a front wall, will help reduce low and mid cancellation in the front of room because the wavelengths are long enough they're not noticably cancelling, allowing for a little eq tweak in low end. How do you think it would sound having the speakers this close to a mid absorber. Im a little confused as to how to calculate the ideal distance as well. Ideally, the start freq of absorbtion of panel, at a distance where that frequency would begin to cancel? I couldn't find the freq absorb ranges of dif panels designs, prob just missed it while reading through. I would rather the speakers be close to the front of room and window, rather than rear of room like some prefer. The reason for this is, I was thinking of using one large bass trap on ceiling running horizontal, above speakers placed at angle to deflect mids/highs to back of room, and two mid traps-one behind each speaker placed at ideal distance. These mid bass traps would also be shorter than your design. Finally, as far as windows go, of course more mass is better but. . I was thinking of using clear acrylic plastic rather than glass because I can get it mad cheap at 1/4, 1/8 inch thicknesses. Do you think it will do the job doubled up or should I just stretch my dollar for the glass? I've only experienced super dupper thick windows in professional control rooms before so I'm not sure what is a good thickness or amount of mass to consider acceptable.
Hope this wasnt too much for one read, I just signed up for the forums and figured I'd get out all my questions at once. Cheers for reading all our loong posts.
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#1647858 - 04/22/04 05:53 AM
Re: a few questions
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Andre Vare
Senior Member
Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 125
Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
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Dimensions roughly 12, 17.5, with a 7.5 foot ceiling. I can't wait to try your panel design, but your beep bass plans call for an 8' high panel. If I were to drop the height to 7.5 or 7' on the deep bass panel would it make much of a difference? No.
Would decreasing the other measuresments in ratio help as well? No.
I tried out that cool little modecalc program, it allowed me to really play with the dimensions rather than study them. 7.5 being the max height I can reach, I got some modes close together at 100 and 200 for length and width. If I chopped off a foot from the design would it still catch these frequencies or should I double up the fiberglass thickness, or use thinner front panel wood. Of of what design? The room? The absorber? Read the "70x Absorption" thread for absorption of fiberglass in open form at various thicknesses and densities.
Another question, I've read that moving your speakers, backs facing close to a front wall, will help reduce low and mid cancellation in the front of room because the wavelengths are long enough they're not noticably cancelling, allowing for a little eq tweak in low end. How do you think it would sound having the speakers this close to a mid absorber. Im a little confused as to how to calculate the ideal distance as well. Ideally, the start freq of absorbtion of panel, at a distance where that frequency would begin to cancel? I couldn't find the freq absorb ranges of dif panels designs, prob just missed it while reading through. I would rather the speakers be close to the front of room and window, rather than rear of room like some prefer. The reason for this is, I was thinking of using one large bass trap on ceiling running horizontal, above speakers placed at angle to deflect mids/highs to back of room, and two mid traps-one behind each speaker placed at ideal distance. These mid bass traps would also be shorter than your design. You have Thorn a lot in that paragraph. Read Ethan's FAQ. Once you absorb that information you will have a lot of questions answered, and several concepts clear that will help you prevent making mistakes that you might otherwise have made.
Finally, as far as windows go, of course more mass is better but. . I was thinking of using clear acrylic plastic rather than glass because I can get it mad cheap at 1/4, 1/8 inch thicknesses. Do you think it will do the job doubled up or should I just stretch my dollar for the glass? I've only experienced super dupper thick windows in professional control rooms before so I'm not sure what is a good thickness or amount of mass to consider acceptable. Only you can decide how much noise is acceptable. For an excellent starter, read
[url= sound isolation
You can ignore most of the math, the pictures tell most of the story. If you feel the document is a bit too detailed for what you need, jump to the drawing at the end of the various wall constructions. If you already know why the ratings are the the way they are, good. If not go back and read the entire document absorbing at least the general principles. It will help you avoid costly mistakes.
Plastic has less than half the density of glass, so any window will have 6 dB less isolation than with glass, ignoring stiffness and coincidence frequency effects.
Hope this wasnt too much for one read, I just signed up for the forums and figured I'd get out all my questions at once. Cheers for reading all our loong posts. Not a problem. In the last two weeks on other forums that Ethan and frequent there are two people who are desperately trying to avoid having to tear down partitions that were made wrong. One person was building their studio and ignored advice that they had asked for and received a straight answer not to do a certain thing. If those people would have read, and absorbed the link I gave for sound isolation, they would have saved many hours of work and thousands of dollars in material.
One of the things I have learned through experience is that people who get the best results acoustically from their rooms spend at least as much time planning their rooms as building them.
For an example of what goes into the detailed planning of room, read the "Empty Room Scratch" and "Empty Room Almost Full" threads. Lots of links in those threads, some with pretty pictures of studios!
No doubt you will have more questions, just post and we will reply!
Have fun!
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#1647859 - 04/22/04 09:41 AM
Re: a few questions
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jamesway
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Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 14
Loc: pa
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let me try this again.
What, roughly are the frequencies absorbed by each of ethan's bass trap designs? I thought I read it somewhere but can not find the page.
Will the deep bass trap design absorb down to 100-200hz if it is a foot shorter?
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#1647860 - 04/22/04 10:42 AM
Re: a few questions
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5473
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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James,
> What, roughly are the frequencies absorbed by each of ethan's bass trap designs? <
The low-bass trap peaks at about 100 Hz, and the high-bass type at about 200 Hz. The frequency is determined by the mass of the front panel and the cavity depth. The width and height are not a factor, so you can make them shorter and they'll still work fine.
--Ethan
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#1647861 - 04/23/04 05:35 PM
Re: a few questions
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jamesway
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Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 14
Loc: pa
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Thanks for the info ethan. Your latest thread also made me think. What do you think the result would be of building the rear wall out of a thin material that would not stop the deep bass frequencies? Such as plywood instead of drywall, glued down securely. My space has a decent sized area behind rear wall (bout 12/8) filled with shelves and tools. I think the furniture itself would act as a decent diffuser. If I put my speakers directly in front of a very hard surface and also had the rear wall made of a light surface, I wonder what the result would be. The tracking room is already separated from control room by thick wall and door.
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#1647862 - 04/24/04 02:14 PM
Re: a few questions
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5473
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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James,
> What do you think the result would be of building the rear wall out of a thin material <
Well, it depends on what's behind the thin wall. In theory this is a good idea, but even 1/4 inch plywood may be too thick to pass mid- and high-bass frequencies. I admit I've never measured the "crossover frequency" of such materials, and it would certainly be useful information.
Rather than build a thin wall, it probably makes more sense to just have no wall at all and make the room that much larger.
--Ethan
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#1647863 - 04/24/04 03:21 PM
Re: a few questions
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jamesway
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Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 14
Loc: pa
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I could call it train car studios:)
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