#1647569 - 04/10/04 06:31 PM
Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Dear Ethan & Friends,
I hope you're all having a nice Easter break (if any).
My following question is simple;
What is the thickest material I could use to cover, protect and prevent the cats from scratching thru to the Fiberglass without affecting the Bass absorption efficiency? Or with minimal effects?
ie; thin Corkboard, 2 mm-Hardboard, or Metal, Plastic or Hardboard Grille with small holes ...
The cats have always been allowed in my "Project Studio", I cannot lock them out:-)
Tx
Gino
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#1647570 - 04/10/04 06:46 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Wet cat thoroughly.
Insert in microwave on high for 10 minutes.
Calms them right down.
Seriously, there is noithing to stop cats from scratching if they want to scratch.
A thin material like hardboard is not going to stop the low end... it will go right through. But it is going to reflect the highs back into the room, changing the tone of what you now have.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647571 - 04/10/04 07:11 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Bill,
Nice to see someone active in the Forum over Easter;-)
Seriously, there is noithing to stop cats from scratching if they want to scratch.
A thin material like hardboard is not going to stop the low end... it will go right through. But it is going to reflect the highs back into the room, changing the tone of what you now have.
Bill
Then, what material would you recommend using as as a protective layer (bettween the Fiberglass and the High/Mids Foam absorbers)?
Do I miss something?
Tx
Gino
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#1647572 - 04/10/04 07:53 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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If you are going to go through the trouble to cover the insulation with a hard board, then why not just build bass traps? Push your low freq absorbtion even lower, and get the most for your money? Instead of using hardboard in the front, use lauan. (No foam... see Ethan's bass traps designs.)
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647573 - 04/10/04 09:27 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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If you are going to go through the trouble to cover the insulation with a hard board, then why not just build bass traps? Push your low freq absorbtion even lower, and get the most for your money? Instead of using hardboard in the front, use lauan. (No foam... see Ethan's bass traps designs.)
In the topic/thread "Several questions", you can see a drawing of my room with measurements.
Wouldn't it be quicker and cheaper to simply use Fiberglass panels, as oppose to building BassTraps?
Tx
Gino
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#1647574 - 04/11/04 12:02 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Ethan Winer
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Gino,
As you can see, Bill and I are both a couple of very dedicated guys!
The home theater guys often use 1/4 inch thick batting between the fiberglass and the outer fabric. Batting is a sort of thin stuffing material - usually white - and you can get it at any fabric store. But it's still soft stuff that any cat can claw through. Bill's suggestions are good [except his suggestion to put your cat in the Microwave - really Bill!]. Or you can use batting and then cover that with plastic or even metal screening.
--Ethan
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#1647575 - 04/11/04 04:25 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Ethan,
As you can see, Bill and I are both a couple of very dedicated guys!
Bill's suggestions are good [except his suggestion to put your cat in the Microwave - really Bill!].
Or you can use batting and then cover that with plastic or even metal screening.
What is the maximum thickness I could use then?
Since I can get free 2mm thick precut sheets of hardboard (the one used for picture frame backing), would this be suitable?
Tx
Gino
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#1647576 - 04/11/04 10:19 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Loco
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Originally posted by Topfloormix:
[QBWhat is the thickest material I could use to cover, protect and prevent the cats from scratching thru to the Fiberglass without affecting the Bass absorption efficiency? Or with minimal effects?[/QB]
Cover the bass traps with vertical wiring separated half an inch. It has to be non-insulated thin wires (half inch web will do it). Put the bass traps on top of a copper plate that is about 4-6 inches bigger than the bass trap base. Apply 12V (24 is better) between the plate and the wires. The cats will learn not to scratch the bass traps in 3-6 days.
You can elliminate the base plate if you can get ahold of a farm electric fence generator. There are solar models very efficient manteinance free.
If you have dogs that like to pee on the traps, put 9V batteries at the recurrent places. 2 days is all you need.
A golf club works fine too, bnut you have to be around and alert to operate it.
_________________________
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
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#1647577 - 04/12/04 02:02 AM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Loco,
These are extreme measures and extra work! I won't go that route, I think I will try covering with thin hardboard, and top them up with some acoustic panels that I already have, so I can get back the mid/high Freq-absorbtion...
In fact, I think that this is a good way to get a wider absorbtion. By simply making those Fiberglass panels more efficient at Mid/highs absorbtion, you end up with Bass/Mid/Highs absorbtion with one panel, so you endup with fewer (I know, the experts are going to say: "It is not as easy as you think":-))
Gino
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#1647578 - 04/12/04 06:54 AM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Bryson
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Get the cats a scratch post, and quit putting catnip in the fiberglass.
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#1647579 - 04/12/04 02:17 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Ethan Winer
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Gino,
> Do you mean plastic screening or plastic sheet? <
Screen, like the stuff in your windows to keep the flies out. But again, if you use screening you'll need some thin fabric or batting underneath it to keep the fiberglass covered.
--Ethan
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#1647580 - 04/12/04 03:52 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Get the cats a scratch post
... and quit putting catnip in the fiberglass.
Gino
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#1647581 - 04/12/04 04:10 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Ethan,
Screen, like the stuff in your windows to keep the flies out. But again, if you use screening you'll need some thin fabric or batting underneath it to keep the fiberglass covered.
Ethan, is 2mm Hardboard ok?
Tx
Gino
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#1647582 - 04/12/04 04:43 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Ethan Winer
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Gino,
> I would prefer something more rigid, such as a metal screen or hardboard <
Okay, so use metal screen. I suggested that in my very first post!
> is 2mm Hardboard ok? <
I have no idea. I'm sure metal screen will be okay. And thin cardboard is probably okay too.
--Ethan
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#1647583 - 04/12/04 05:09 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Ethan,
Okay, so use metal screen. I suggested that in my very first post!
For maximum bass absorption, will I benefit more from sticking two 4inch fiberglass panels together (ie; doubling the thickness), or leaving a gap in between them? Is there a difference?
Tx
Gino
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#1647584 - 04/12/04 05:36 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Ethan Winer
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Gino,
> For maximum bass absorption, will I benefit more from sticking two 4inch fiberglass panels together <
I don't know because I've never measured four inches thick versus eight. Generally, the thicker the better if you have the room. And an air space between the panels will probably not help much.
--Ethan
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#1647585 - 04/12/04 07:36 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Hi Ethan,
Thanks for the fantastic support, I am getting there ... I have important final questions below:
Generally, the thicker the better if you have the room. And an air space between the panels will probably not help much.
I have a big mattress standing on its side, flat against the rear wall, which fits neatly in between the two corners (you can see it on my previous drawing in several question thread) and I was planning to put Fiberglass panels in front of it.
Is this good, or should I remove the mattress and simply put the fiberglass as far away from the rear wall as possible? Or could I actually put the mattress in front of the Fibreglass (and not worry about the cats clawing the Fibreglass?)
(Because of the space restriction this wall is the only real area where I can do something accoustically speaking)
Tx
Gino
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#1647586 - 04/12/04 08:17 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Ethan Winer
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Gino,
> Is there a point at which the air gap becomes too big and we lose efficiency? <
Yes, probably. The problem is the only way to know for sure is to test and measure, and that's expensive. Of course, nobody in their right mind would give up four feet all around a small room, so I've never had much of an incentive to pay for those tests. In general, I'll guess that anything more than one foot is not worth it. Also, as I explain in my Acoustics FAQ , it seems to me the ideal air gap is equal to the panel thickness.
> I have a big mattress standing on its side, flat against the rear wall <
Yeah, that might help. Start some music playing and then lug it out, and back in, and see if you can hear a difference in LF clarity and fullness.
> could I actually put the mattress in front of the Fibreglass (and not worry about the cats clawing the Fibreglass?) <
Again, only by trying that will you know how useful it is.
--Ethan
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#1647587 - 04/12/04 08:37 PM
Re: Fiberglass/Cats clawing issue
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Topfloormix
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Ethan,
Thank you so much for your answers, now the biggest part is to find a supplier in London, I will defenitely go for 4inch thick 705 or 707 if I can find it. I will follow all your advice, and the main one if I understood, will be to absorb as much low end as possible (now that I now that High/mid is easier to control/absorb). I am going to try to build a big and deep modular fiberglass wall at the rear.
I will give some feedback once I am sorted.
Thanks again for everything,
Gino
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