#1647560 - 04/10/04 03:12 PM
How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Super 8
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I'm looking for some info on doing this.
I've never done it before, but my mixer has a spectrum analyzer on it, and I'd like to learn how.
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Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1647561 - 04/10/04 04:51 PM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Ethan Winer
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Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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S,
> I'm looking for some info on doing this. <
Most spectrum analyzers do not offer a fine enough resolution to accurately measure the low frequency response in a small room. I use ETF from http://www.acoustisoft.com and it's fabulous. It costs $150, but it does everything the really expensive hardware analyzers do.
If you happen to have Sonar version 3 you can download a Sonar project that measures your room with 1 Hz resolution between 40 and 300 Hz. You also need a decent omnidirectional microphone. If you do have Sonar 3, go to the Videos page on my company's web site, linked under my name below.
--Ethan
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#1647562 - 04/10/04 07:55 PM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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For the purposes of cretaing a good recording space, you don't 'ring out thre room' like you might in a live venue. Different goals, and they require different solutions.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647563 - 04/11/04 03:04 AM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Super 8
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Loc: Loves Park, IL
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Thanks for the info so far...
This is not for a recording studio. It's actually for a live situation, in a room that seats approx 500 people.
_________________________
Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1647564 - 04/11/04 12:05 PM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Ethan Winer
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S8,
> a room that seats approx 500 people <
In that case I believe 1/3 octave EQ is considered viable. But I'm not much of a live sound guy, so follow whatever Bill suggests.
--Ethan
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#1647565 - 04/11/04 03:25 PM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Everybody has their favorite way. Many use pink noise and a measurement mic. Some use the SMAART system, which I can highly recommend based not only on my own (limited) usage of the product, but on having seen many many pros using it in arenas and theaters all over the place for major touring acts.
In a club or presentation situation I use the main vocal mic as my reference. I sit it in place, and I bypass any board eq.
I set the board outs at what I suspect to be the normal operating level.
I have the 1/3 octave eq set flat.
The mic trim is at a normal level for the mic and singer/presenter, usually between noon and 2 o'clock with a standard dynamic.
Slowly raising the volume of the mic, I look for hot spots in the room. If I'm lucky, we get to a normal operating level before the feedback starts. If so, I still do the same thing, but it is less intrusive on the final sound. If not, the
final sound may not be a full and rich as I like it to be.
When pushing the volume, a frequency (or perhaps more than one) will start to ring. Find that frequency by pushing the sliders on the 1/3 octave eq UP, one at a time, returning them to flat if it is not the hot frequency. Don't be shy, pump that slider! Just be prepared to dump it quickly if it IS the hot frequency.
Not that there is significant overlap among the controls on a 1/3 octave eq. More than one slider might affect the hot frequency. But when you find the right one, it will be obvious, because it will really make that frequency pop out at you.
When you have isolated a hot frequency, pull it down a few dB. 3, 6, at this stage it won't matter. You may have to come back to it and take a little more out as things progress.
Continue pushing the channel volume and pulling out hot frequencies until you have a goodly amount of headroom over what you think will be the final operating level. Sometimes you have to revisit a frequency that you have already addressed. That is normal. I is also normal that multiples of that frequency would also be a problem.... if 200 is an issue, 400 and 800 will likely also be an issue.
Now get your singer or main presenter (or some other flunky) to stand in front of the mic and talk. If it is a singer, ge him to lean into it and try to give you the same push that he would during a performance. If it is a presenter soituastion get him or your flunky to read the newspaper to you. There is little point in having someone scream into the mic from 1 inch when the presenters will be a couple of feet away, speaking normally or even softewr than normal (inexperienced presenters get freaked when they hear their voices so loud, and they start to speak more softly.)
It takes doing this a few times to get a hang of it, but soon you will become familiar with frequencies by their sound and be hitting those eq sliders in the dark of a club with full assurance, because you will KNOW the diff between 250 and 315..... etc etc.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647566 - 04/12/04 02:56 AM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Super 8
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Loc: Loves Park, IL
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Thanks so much for the reply.
Are you using a standard vocal mic for this??? Something like a 58?
_________________________
Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#1647567 - 04/12/04 02:21 PM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Ethan Winer
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S8,
> Are you using a standard vocal mic for this??? <
For best accuracy you'll use a "good" microphone. But if you use the same brand and model the venue uses that will include the mike's own response in the measurements and correction.
--Ethan
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#1647568 - 04/13/04 11:50 AM
Re: How to 'Ring-out' a room...
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I never use a 58 for anything.
But yes, I'm using whatever my choice of vocal mic is for that event. The reasons are as Ethan stated... including the mic signature into the eq equation when tuing the system. It makes little sense to try to ring out to a mic that you are not going to be using, and since the vocal is going to be the mic that gets turned up the loudestt, and is probably the most important, that is the mic that I use to ring out a room.
I also start my checks there. I know that it is most popular to start with the kick, but quite honestly if the lead singer sounds like dogshit, nobody is going to give a damn what the kick sounds like. And I can guarantee you that the crowd didn't pay to hear the kick. Make the melody instruments sound good, and feed in the rhythm to support them.. there will be plenty left over for the low end, and if the lead vocal is rocking, the rest of the mid-range instruments will sound good, too.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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