#1647451 - 04/03/04 08:34 PM
QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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zerbym1
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Has anyone used QuietRock soundproofing drywall to soundproof a studio? The product literature on it makes some very impressive (almost hard to believe) claims about its sound transmission co-efficients and its ease of installation. The literature also makes it sound as if floating rooms will become a thing of the past. Hmm. The company that makes it is called Quiet Solution (www.quietsolution.com).
So the question is: Has anyone used it, and, if so, how have the results been? Thanks.
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Matthew
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#1647452 - 04/03/04 09:26 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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At $90 a 4x8 sheet, I doubt that I'll be seeing it anywhere anytime soon.
Bill
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#1647453 - 04/03/04 10:05 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Andre Vare
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Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
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I also checked the specs. High price, and heavy. 85 lbs per sheet.
Double layer drywall, use rc and RSIC type clips on one side. Fraction of the cost.
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#1647454 - 04/04/04 04:06 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Andre Vare
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Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
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I started reading a bit more the Quiet rock, and well had a nice chuckle. They list the performance of their QR-530 as having and STC of 54. PAC-Intl shows that their base configuration has an STC of 56.
PAC wood frame tests
Incidentally, the Quietwood floor IS floating. The two layers of compound in the middle.
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#1647455 - 04/05/04 01:43 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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zerbym1
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Thanks guys. My studio is a project studio in the basement of my house. I want to soundproof it, for the first time ever, so I can work on relatively loud music in the basement studio and my girlfriend can comfortably watch television or maybe even read on the couch of the house's first floor at the same time. I don't care if I use resilient channel, clips, etc. or this QuietRock stuff, I just want to be reasonably sure that if I put in the work and pay the expense necessary to soundproof my room that it will yield the desired results. Is an STC of around 60 adequate to facilitate what I've described here? And what about Quiet Solution's claims about extremely high failure rates for floated rooms?
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Matthew
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#1647456 - 04/05/04 03:03 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I can tell you that you are unlikely to meet with success in what you want to do, for any reasonable amount of money in most any standard home. Either build a studio in an outbuilding/garage or build her a TV room somewhere high and far away.....
Sorry, but that has been my experience.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647457 - 04/05/04 04:29 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Andre Vare
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Bill hit it on the head. what is your budget?
And what about Quiet Solution's claims about extremely high failure rates for floated rooms?
Go back and read their documents. Not properly trained installers. Are you doing the installation yourself? Are you going to put fridges, bed backboards, against the wall?
They did not say floated rooms are prone to high failure rates.
Did you even bother to read the PAC RSIC data? Kinetics noise makes a similar product if you want to compare.
If you want sound isolation to the upstairs, give us information about the construction of the current dwelling. Sound isolation, there is no such thing as soundproofing, sound isolation is like building a bottle to hold water. It makes no difference if 99% of the container is waterproof, it will still leak through the 1%.
STC is not really appropriate for musical sound isolation. What becomes imporant is the low frequencies, which are reduced in importance by the weighting in STC values.
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#1647458 - 04/05/04 03:34 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Extreme Mixing
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Loc: Van Nuys ,CA,UNITED STATES
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I'm afraid that the best solution is to get rid of your girlfriend. You'll never be able to stop the low frequencies from leaking into room above unless, a 4' ceiling will work for you. I have a wife, so I know about these things...
Steve
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#1647459 - 04/05/04 03:38 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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caseyLA
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I'd have to agree with Steve. Much easier to get rid of people than unwanted sound.
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#1647460 - 04/05/04 09:15 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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zerbym1
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"what is your budget?" I'm willing to spend from $2000-$5000.
"Are you doing the installation yourself?" If I end up doing the installation, I'll do it myself . . . maybe with a little help from my friends.
"Are you going to put fridges, bed backboards, against the wall?" No, nothing at all would go against any of the studio walls.
"Did you even bother to read the PAC RISC data?" Yes I did. Thanks for the link. I'm not at all opposed to using isolation clips and furring channel. All options--except dumping the better half--remain on the table.
"If you want sound isolation to the upstairs, give us information about the construction of the current dwelling." The studio floor is concrete. Three of the studio walls are concrete block buried in earth up to about 5 feet. A fourth wall would be built and could easily be of double wood stud construction. Overhead are exposed 2-by-8 floor joists covered with 3/4-inch wood subflooring which is in turn covered by 3/4-inch tongue-and-groove oak flooring.
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It sounds like plenty of people know things that won't work. Does anyone have any experience with what will? (Aside from the suggestions already offered.) Thanks.
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Matthew
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#1647461 - 04/05/04 10:19 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Mathew,
"It sounds like plenty of people know things that won't work. Does anyone have any experience with what will?"
Sorry that you don't like the answer. Maybe I can help to explain.
The concrete slab passes the sound to the concrete block walls, upon which the building rests, transmitting those vibrations through the structure.
How do you beat that? Floating studio floor, studio walls built upon that floor. This requires more ceiling height than one finds in most homes. (Before we get to fixing the ceiling...)
The sound goes up through the ductwork.
Got to isolate all that duct, use convoluted runs of insulated duct. Then enclose that duct in chases that are isolated and treated with sound proofing. (I used acoustalead, followed by 2x construction stuffed with insulation and covered by double layered drywall...) Takes up more space than is available in most homes.
The sound goes straight up through the ceiling/floor, via impact; and the sound of the very long low frequency waves go right through the ceiling/floor as if it wasn't there.
I stuffed the joist cavities. I put in a layer of drywall, a new row of furring,and a double layer of drywall.
My walls are 12 inch thick old-style block... dulls masonry bits to try to drill through them. Then I have 3.5 inches of insulation. Then I have 2x4 walls, stuffed with insulation. again, double drywall, equaling 1.25 inches, glued and screwed. Pretty heavy duty.
Sound still goes through the duct, loud sound is louder. Sound still goes through the floor. No chance of sitting in the living room or dining room while we're recording.
Outside I don't disturb the neighbors much, but the low end stuff still penetrates.
I built a nice little office/TV room in what was formerly my library... my finished third floor attic. Still, I know that we can't get that loud.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1647462 - 04/05/04 11:50 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Andre Vare
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Loc: Hamilton, ON Canada
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"what is your budget?" I'm willing to spend from $2000-$5000.
"Are you doing the installation yourself?" If I end up doing the installation, I'll do it myself . . . maybe with a little help from my friends.
"Are you going to put fridges, bed backboards, against the wall?" No, nothing at all would go against any of the studio walls.
"Did you even bother to read the PAC RISC data?" Yes I did. Thanks for the link. I'm not at all opposed to using isolation clips and furring channel. All options--except dumping the better half--remain on the table. "If you want sound isolation to the upstairs, give us information about the construction of the current dwelling." The studio floor is concrete. Three of the studio walls are concrete block buried in earth up to about 5 feet. A fourth wall would be built and could easily be of double wood stud construction. Overhead are exposed 2-by-8 floor joists covered with 3/4-inch wood sub flooring which is in turn covered by 3/4-inch tongue-and-groove oak flooring.
nrc-cnrc.gc.ca
They have some test data on concrete block/wallboard walls in some other document. The search engine will get you there.
No windows? No doors or doorways? High noise isolation door systems , yes systems, are expensive. BBC in their RD reports section has two reports on doors, and door seals: RD 1994-14 and RD 1994-15
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/index.html
To increase the low end isolation of the ceiling, use hangers like Kinetics Noise model ICW. The advantage of this model is that attaches to the joists. Use 2 layers of 5/8" gypsum board.
It sounds like plenty of people know things that won't work. Does anyone have any experience with what will? (Aside from the suggestions already offered.)
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#1647463 - 04/06/04 10:35 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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zerbym1
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Okay, thanks again--especially, Andre, for steering me to the Kinetics ICW hangers. I've been unable to fully access the other literature to which you directed me, but I'll get it somehow and then read it.
I'll probably end up trying a middle road approach to my situation. I think I'll build a floated, enclosed drum room, using the heaviest duty construction techniques I can afford. I'll see how well (or how poorly) the sound is isolated, then decide whether to continue treating the rest of the room (which, to answer one of your questions, Andre, is 25' by 11').
I have at least one thing going in my favor--no duct work. I have hot water radiator heat and every single pipe is tucked up inside the floor joists.
But whether I even build the drum room will be determined by the answer to the following question: Is seven feet an adequate height for a drum booth? (Seven feet is all that would be left over after floating the room/booth.) I'm going to research this on my own, but, maybe someone has some words of wisdom about this as well. I really appreciate all the help and information.
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Matthew
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#1647464 - 04/07/04 02:29 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Andre Vare
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BBC in their RD reports section has two reports on doors, and door seals: RD 1994-14 and RD 1994-15
I tried the BBC RD reports site several ways and had no luck either. I would have emailed those reports to you, but you don't list your email address.
Once the site works properly, scan all the reports available for downloading. Numerous topics that are studied in great detail for sound, and available for free!
This is a big file, to be expected with 351 wall systems tested. The results are in their IR 761 report. I don't have the URL but they have a search function on their site.
ir761
NRC-IRC Search Page
This is the beginning of an excellent thread on floating floors on concrete
Floating Floor thread
Whle we are on links, Zero International specializes in acoustic casketing systems. Not meant as a blanket recommendation, they are expensive, but to give you ideas.
Zero International
There have been several designs for constructed doors on the web. One that makes sense, but is expensive because of the lead, is standard industrial 1 3/4" door with a layer of 5 lb per square foot lead and then 3/4" MDF arched to one side. If you decide to go that route, or something similar, you can rabbit the sides and top, and then have double seals around the jamb.
Okay, thanks again--especially, Andre, for steering me to the Kinetics ICW hangers. I've been unable to fully access the other literature to which you directed me, but I'll get it somehow and then read it.
The biggest problem is room height. Yes you can get a decent drum sound with a 7' ceiling, but will have to just make all of the ceiling absorptive.
On the bottom of the floor above, attach 5/8" MDF between the joists to increase the mass. MDF is more expensive than drywall, but we are trying to increase the mass, so the extra weight would be worth it, IMHO.
For the ceiling construction, use joists, insulation between the joists, then 5/8", 1/2", 5/8" drywall. Nothing on the top because that will create a mass-spring-mass-spring-mass effect with the floor above. Below that 4" of the standard absorptive insulation. That means 3-4 pcf fiberglass or mineral wool.
There's one ceiling idea.
Do not forget ventillation for the booth.
When you are finished Reading the thread on floating floors go the "studios under construction" section off the main page (www.johnlsayers.com) and have a look at the Blue Bear recording construction. Similar constraints in ceiling height, and may give you some ideas for the drum booth design. All of the studios described there are interesting.
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#1647465 - 04/08/04 10:30 PM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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zerbym1
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Andre and Bill: I want to thank both of you for taking so much time with my questions. Between the wisdom and ideas you've offered, and the exceptionally helpful and practical links you've directed me toward, I think I'll be busy for quite a while. I'll give an update when I've made some tangible progress. Thanks again.
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Matthew
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#1647466 - 04/09/04 01:55 AM
Re: QuietRock soundproofing drywall - does it work?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Watch the drum booth size, because you get a lot of unwanted reflections and comnb filtering from small booths. With a 7 foot ceiling, you already have issues.... what happens to the overheads?
Bill
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