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#1647148 - 03/17/04 07:48 PM Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
blairl
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Do you happen to know of any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric for wrapping panels?
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#1647149 - 03/18/04 01:58 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Ethan Winer Moderator
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Blair,

There's no need to buy fancy expensive fabric just to wrap absorber panels. You do need acoustically transparent cloth for speaker grill cloth in front of a tweeter. But any soft cloth that's not shiny or reflective works fine for covering absorber panels.

--Ethan
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#1647150 - 03/19/04 01:29 AM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
blairl
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ethan Winer:
Blair,

There's no need to buy fancy expensive fabric just to wrap absorber panels. You do need acoustically transparent cloth for speaker grill cloth in front of a tweeter. But any soft cloth that's not shiny or reflective works fine for covering absorber panels.

--Ethan
I notice that you wrote an article where you suggested dyed burlap. Burlap seems to be pourous kind of like Guilford FR701/2100. Are you saying that this pourous nature doesn't really matter? Does the thickness of the fabric matter? If the material is too thick or non pourous will it negate some of the effect of the 703 or 705 rigid fiberglass?
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#1647151 - 03/19/04 02:23 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Ethan Winer Moderator
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Blair,

> Burlap seems to be pourous kind of like Guilford FR701/2100 <

Yes. The only real difference is that FR701 costs 10 times more. Though I admit it does look nicer than brown burlap. So get dyed burlap instead!

> If the material is too thick or non pourous will it negate some of the effect of the 703 or 705 rigid fiberglass? <

I don't think so. Any fabric that doesn't reflect mid and high frequencies should be fine.

--Ethan
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The acoustic treatment experts

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#1647152 - 03/22/04 12:32 AM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
John Bailey
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Only problem is... if you hold a match against a burlap covered panel, in not too much time... "Woof" and then the flames start spreading real fast.

Unless the fabric has a Class-1 fire rating and certified by UL, I'd stay the hell away from anything you get in a fabric store.

I'm sure there's a few other companies out there, no?

Cheers
JB
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#1647153 - 03/22/04 01:30 AM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Bailey:
Only problem is... if you hold a match against a burlap covered panel, in not too much time... "Woof" and then the flames start spreading real fast.

Cheers
JB
I used to work for a touring company that handled not only sound and lights, but all the other aspects of a production. I don't know the chemical configuration of the flame proofing that we made and had sprayed on our custom made draperies, (different department...) but it was made from 2 common household chemicals, and passes the fire code requirements all over the US. No doubt, the scenic department of your local theater, or college theater department would know about this. Mix it up, put it in an old windex bottle, and spray down the burlap.

I don't care for the way most of the Guilford stuff wears.... to my eye, it starts to look funky after a while. But it is very common stuff. One option for a similar but different answer might be a local fabric over-stock store. Upolstery or heavy drapery fabric might be an answer, and though it might need to be treated to make it fireproof, would be available at remnant pricing, which would be significantly less than Guilford.

Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."

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#1647154 - 03/22/04 01:20 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Ethan Winer Moderator
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John,

> if you hold a match against a burlap covered panel, in not too much time... "Woof" and then the flames start spreading real fast. <

Bear in mind that a thin sheet of burlap has very little mass. What sustains a damaging fire is large amounts of wood or foam or other flammable materials. Like the thin paper coating on sheetrock. Yes, the paper will burn, but it turns to ash and disintegrates quickly because the bulk of the material is rock.

I'm not saying to ignore the danger of any potentially flammable material! But the total amount of mass is what matters most.

--Ethan
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The acoustic treatment experts

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#1647155 - 03/22/04 09:31 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
The poster with no fame
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If you contact a stage/theatrical supplier ( like Rose Brand? in NYC) it is easy to buy dyed burlap pretreated to be flame retardant.

good Point John.. Lydian, right? Great shop if it is.
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#1647156 - 04/03/04 06:01 AM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
John Bailey
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Registered: 07/10/02
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Loc: Toronto, ON Canada

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Quote:
Originally posted by The poster with no fame:
If you contact a stage/theatrical supplier ( like Rose Brand? in NYC) it is easy to buy dyed burlap pretreated to be flame retardant.
Well, that's good news for budget-studio stuff. It sure scares the hell out of me, putting plain ol' fabric up, but if it'll pass UL/CSA when it's treated... then no need to worry about having a Great White session come in. (note to self... humour in bad taste there... may want to consider deleting that part before hitting "Add Reply" eh?) Seriously though, if you figure that's all Guilford is doing, then why line their pockets? I'll make sure to pass this info along.

Quote:

good Point John.. Lydian, right? Great shop if it is.
Hey that's me! Well, I pop in to Lydian now and then, but I'm loving the freelance thing right now! I'm parked at Phase One these days (leasing their D room) and I'm getting into more 5.1 stuff! You might be able to see 'D' from their website Phase One Studios

'The poster with no fame' sort of has a Canadian bent to it eh? I always say, if Osama Bin Laden wanted to make sure he could never be found, he could come and hide out in the Canadian Music Industry with us...

Cheers for now,
John Bailey
http://www.johnbeetlebailey.com
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#1647157 - 04/05/04 08:23 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
MurMan
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Registered: 11/17/03
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I did a little research on flame retardants. Here is a link to one company that sells flame retardants: Spartan

They claim it meets NY and CA codes. Looks like $50 will treat 500 sq. ft. You can spray or brush it on.
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#1647158 - 04/05/04 08:29 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Quote:
Originally posted by MurMan:
I did a little research on flame retardants. Here is a link to one company that sells flame retardants: Spartan

They claim it meets NY and CA codes. Looks like $50 will treat 500 sq. ft. You can spray or brush it on.
I should call the people that I used to work for... they have the formulation, and it is really cheap stuff from the grocery store or something like that.... like $10 would be enought to drown a cow (should that be your proclivity...) But even $50 is reasonable, I guess, just to avoid dealing with the mixing and chasing down the contents.

Yeah, it is easiest to spray on, using a typical pump sprayer like those used in theaters to spray flats and drops with water.

Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."

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#1647159 - 04/05/04 09:12 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
MurMan
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Registered: 11/17/03
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Loc: San Diego

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Bill,

I usually do things myself and never like to over-pay. Probably much like you.

In this case, howver, it seems like getting this or a similar product would be worth it. If there ever was a fire, it might make a difference to the fire (maybe) and definitely would make a diference to the insurance company.

obtw, the Spartan CM product was formerly a DuPont product.
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#1647160 - 04/05/04 10:26 PM Re: Any cheaper alternatives to Guilford fabric?
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Quote:
Originally posted by MurMan:
Bill,

...In this case, howver, it seems like getting this or a similar product would be worth it. If there ever was a fire, it might make a difference to the fire (maybe) and definitely would make a diference to the insurance company.
...
Perhaps, but I don't think so, because this DIY stuff has been approved by all the fire marshalls all over the country. When your stuff passes their flame test, that's all that it takes. Since this company does industrials all over the country, they are always subject to inspection. As such, the stuff that they use has to make everybody (including their liability insurance carrier) happy.

None the less, why not use a commerically available product?

Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."

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