#1645659 - 04/25/05 10:42 AM
Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
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How do you get your band members to contribute?
After being in the same band for 7 years and going through tons of guitar players and drummers, I am starting to see a trend. None of them ever contribute.
I enjoy doing the foot work, but it would be nice if my band would contribute. Even if it was only motivation, excitement, coming up with idea's...maybe even just a plain thank you sometimes. It would make me feel like they are into it and not just riding on my coat tales for free.
Here's what I do:
Own the rehearsal space
schedule rehearsal
pay the electric
write the set lists
Make CD's for the show
Make T-shirts
Sell the CD's and T-shirts
Make Cover CD's for the band members
Handle the e-mail list
Create the promo packages
mail the promo packages
Create and pay for the website
Own the P.A.
Book the clubs
handle the money
Write the originals
Record the originals (that they are on)
pay for the copyrights
Promote the band
Give them equal share of gig money
and probably some others things I forgot to mention.....
Seeing this trend happen over and over again with different members makes me belive it's my fault that they don't do anything. Sometimes, I ask them to do things, but it's like they are all talk... How do I change this?
Ahh...Sometimes, I feel like just joining another band who already has it together and I would contribute to them....Isn't it better to have the contribution????
I am curious...How do other bands handle this? Is this normal?? What should I do?
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#1645660 - 04/25/05 11:08 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Lee Flier
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Well this is a pretty common situation. I think the problem is the definition of what a "band" is. There are really two types of bands: one in which it is more or less democratic - everyone shares in the work, the pay, and the creative input. The other is a band leader with hired guns.
It sounds like what you would LIKE or imagine in your head is the first situation, but what you have is the second - except that you are paying everyone an equal share.
So what it boils down to being honest with yourself and your bandmates. Either you really enjoy having all the control more than you think you do (which is fine), in which case you should dispense with the "we're a band and everyone is equal" and start taking an appropriate share of the pay, and paying everyone else as your hired guns, OR you need to find people who really want to work as a team. If it's the latter, expect that they may want to contribute original songs and have some input as to the direction of the band, and also expect that they are going to do their share of the work and don't do it for them.
And yeah, if you're sick of being a band leader then maybe you should just join someone else's band. But it sounds like you have a lot of leadership qualities and perhaps either don't give yourself the credit for it, or fear being branded as "egotistical" or whatever for spelling out your leadership role. Just be honest with yourself first about who you are, who you want to be in terms of your role in the band and what you want in bandmates. That will allow you to be honest with THEM up front, so there is nobody to blame but them if they don't hold up their end. And think about how you may be fostering a sort of parent/child relationship by saying you don't want to do everything and yet doing it anyway, and still paying them an equal share. Also consider that you may unconsciously be attracting people who aren't very strong personalities because you actually like having creative control... which is fine if that's the case, but you just need to define the roles more clearly, which means you take a bigger share of the pay and you don't ask your bandmates to do things that have now been defined as your responsibility.
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#1645661 - 04/25/05 11:42 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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cherri
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Registered: 09/10/03
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Loc: N. MI USA
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Some people are just more organized and can tackle all those many tasks. If I need help with marketing or promotion, they're willing to help, but I still have to keep it all together and specifically tell them the tasks I need help with.
The band members prefer that I handle it all, and as they will tell you, I'm a control freak. We split the pay evenly, except this past weekend, when my truck broke down, all the guys in the band chipped in some of their gig pay to help cover the repairs.
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#1645662 - 04/25/05 11:44 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Lee Flier
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Good post, cherri. Basically you are realistic about your role in the band so you don't resent the others for not helping more. Good for you.
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#1645663 - 04/25/05 12:06 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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miroslav
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Back when I was doing the band scene...the last band I was in, I did the majority of "stuff":
Most booking
Overall band management
Financial management
Writing
Equipment maintenance
Owned 1/2 of the huge PA
Owned the entire light show
...and a slew of "little things"
But it was "my baby"...so I put in the heavy time and effort...though I always kept things generally democratic, unless there was a stalemate, in which case I did the tiebreaker.
But after awhile...it had it's toll on me...and I found that more and more, the others were doing less and less. They would just show up for practice and show up for the gigs.
Finally one day it all came to ahead...and I just cut loose from it all and turned my attention to writing and recording.
Now...after a very long hiatus...I'm actually trying to get back into the band scene again...because I do miss it.
Only this time, I'm trying to set the vibe and goals right up front, so there are no misunderstandings...but I do feel that I may have to really get behind this and push the boat as hard as my personal interest allows...
...and I hope that the other members feel the same way...if not, it may be necessary to switch members...???
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1645664 - 04/25/05 12:45 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Curious_G
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Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 247
Loc: Gulph Mills,PA,UNITED STATES
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I do a lot of that stuff too and the truth is that I enjoy it. It's not about being a control freak it's just that I have an idea of what work needs to be done to help the band move forward. When people get excited and volunteer to help that's great. If they don't and something just doesn't get done it's too bad but not the end of the world.
I have cut back on what kinds of things I'm willing to do for the band and that forces the other guys to pick up the slack. That makes them be "team players" and gives me a chance to back off with my expectations of them.
I will not finance the band and I would suggest you be careful in that regard. Keep receipts and insist on reimbursement. Usually the other guys don't have any idea how fast $$$ for postage, phone calls, CDs etc. can add up.
If the band is making decent money you might add a % bonus for whoever books a gig. That might give some incentive for the other band members to book some of the shows.
Have you considered a side/solo project? Might help you keep sane.
_________________________
Got Twang? http://www.DeSotoRust.com "Interesting fact: the more gear a band brings in, the less people show up. This rule is almost universally true." JJ the Blue Moon
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#1645665 - 04/25/05 01:31 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
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Originally posted by Lee Flier:
It sounds like what you would LIKE or imagine in your head is the first situation, but what you have is the second - except that you are paying everyone an equal share.
I never considered myself a leader at all. I am the most passive person I know. I did start this, which kind of makes me the leader, but I always wanted a team. I have asked them to bring there songs so we can play them. I want to make them feel like this is there band too. My guitar player has a CD of his own material and I asked if we could play some of it. A few weeks ago he did come in whith something he started and he said he would complete it and bring it in....he never did.
When we record everyone comes up with there own parts. I may give creative critism and they do that to me too, but never do I say you need to play like this.
Here's a situation that happen just a few months ago. My guitar player came to me and said let's promote. He said he used to do that and he was really good at it. I was really excited. So I said ok what do you need. He said well, first we need a website. I said ok. I did it in a week and said ok Now what...He never did anything. I gave up asking about it and started doing my own promoting with it. For me it's like, I am the type of person that can pick up the slack. But I guess I am just getting frustrasted with all talk no action type of people. I wanted to see how other bands do things...
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#1645666 - 04/25/05 01:43 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Originally posted by Curious_G:
I will not finance the band and I would suggest you be careful in that regard. Keep receipts and insist on reimbursement. Usually the other guys don't have any idea how fast $$$ for postage, phone calls, CDs etc. can add up.
If the band is making decent money you might add a % bonus for whoever books a gig. That might give some incentive for the other band members to book some of the shows.
Have you considered a side/solo project? Might help you keep sane.
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#1645667 - 04/25/05 02:18 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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CMDN
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Registered: 11/13/01
Posts: 6058
Loc: Philadelphia,PA,UNITED STATES
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Hmmm... I'd say I'm a control freak in a lot of ways... or rather, I used to be more controlling back in the days when I had less faith in my bandmates' abilities to live up to their potential. Yeah, I used to crack the whip, and anyone who didn't step up was free to step off.
But... we started out as an avante-punk/artsy band (which is what you call yourself when you're young and are more creative and wild than talented), and it takes a certain mentality to want to be involved with something like that in the first place. Sometimes, that mentality isn't well suited for doing things like booking shows, handling promotions or even keeping a day gig long enough to make food money. Consequently, when I wanted to get stuff going in my earliest band efforts, the guy who was most grounded wound up being the guy who did the business work—the guy who had a steady phone number. That guy wound up being me.
So, I learned how to do all the stuff that goes into band business—how to book, how to make merchandise, how to promote, how to keep track of tunes, how to talk promoters into paying us—because nobody else was really suited for the job.
As I grew older and bandmates came and went, I remained the defacto "that guy" for the band... as in, when someone asked my bandmates how to book us or something, they'd point at me and say, "Ask that guy."
These days, my bandmates are more grown up... Our singer takes care of the van and keeps track of the finances and writes lyrics, our bassist holds down recording tasks gear and production, our drummer acts the voice of reason and song arrangemment... and I kinda watch over everything while doing the booking, merch development, riff composition and pretty much everything else. I'm still our defacto fashion director (Avy helps a lot), and I tend to set band policy regarding most issues.
It's a far cry from the old days when I had to do everything...
Basically, if you want people to be more involved, you have to make sure that they know you want them to be more involved... it won't happen from nothing. Tell them you want to hear their ideas...
_________________________
\m/
Erik
Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
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#1645668 - 04/26/05 07:30 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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cherri
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Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 731
Loc: N. MI USA
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I'm 'that guy' when it comes to booking, marketing, and promotion. Paul is 'that guy' when it comes to anything PA, light, or instrument related.
I didn't mention in my weekend post, when I took my guitar out of the case Friday night, the input had come apart - the ring and nut were loose in the case and the guts were loose inside the guitar. Paul fixed it with a pen light, a cocktail straw, and a bit of patience. I kid you not. This after we had broken down, arrived late, and set up the whole show in half an hour. We don't call him Paul anymore, we call him McGyver.
So, where I say I do it all, I mean promotion and booking. He does it all when it comes to making the show go.
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#1645669 - 04/26/05 08:42 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
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Cherri...You guys really compliment each other. You are very lucky.
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#1645670 - 04/26/05 10:59 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Virtual Jim
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Posts: 585
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Hey guys, I just wanted to thank everyone for their responses thus far. Alot of these posts are hitting way close to home, and they're incredibly appreciated.
I really, really thank Lee, Eric, et al.
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#1645671 - 04/27/05 04:02 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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GZsound
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My band usually asks me if they can contribute. I never have a problem taking some funds off the top for promo packs, CD's, etc. Our bass player bought us really cool jackets and our drummer bought some band shirts..just within the last few weeks.
Everytime I ask for anything, they all jump in to help. In the meantime, I pretty much do everything except play all the instruments and I enjoy it that way.
For the last year I have been totally focused on creating something only I could imagine. Keeping everyone on a course they couldn't see and didn't understand was tough, but it worked. Now they all see what has come of the work and they get it.
Our band is a partnership with me being the senior partner.
_________________________
Mark G.
"A man may fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame others" -- John Burroughs
"I consider ethics, as well as religion, as supplements to law in the government of man." -- Thomas Jefferson
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#1645672 - 04/27/05 10:24 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Lee Flier
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Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
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My band is very much a team. It helps that there are only three of us and we all actually get along and are motivated and reasonable people. Our bass player Lyle and I communicate very well and very regularly, and just sort of go over what needs to be done and who's going to do what. People talk to either of us if they want to book us for a gig or whatever... because we communicate well, pretty much anything that anybody tells one of us is going to get back to the other one so we can make decisions accordingly.
Our drummer has a full time job and a kid, and he doesn't write songs, so he has less time to do band business but if there's something that needs doing that he can do he will offer. We try not to load him up with too much stuff, being conscious of his situation, but if necessary we'll ask him to do something and he always does. His musical contributions and dedication to working out the songs, etc. are worth their weight in gold to us, and he has a great work ethic, so we're more than happy to accommodate the fact that he doesn't have as much time as we do.
There are certain things that one or another of us HAS to do because that individual is the only one who can do it. I'm the only one who can deal with the web site for example, and the engineering. If I don't do it it wouldn't get done or we'd have to pay somebody, so I'm hardly resentful of the extra work!
I think the key is to stay in touch with your bandmates... don't just talk to them at rehearsals, call them up just to shoot the breeze and meanwhile tell them what you are doing and ask them what they are doing. If they're having trouble figuring out what to do next you can discuss it together. Good communication makes everything easier in terms of people being able to contribute.
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#1645673 - 04/27/05 10:59 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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d gauss
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<>
Getting Band Members to Contribute if they don't want to is like trying to get halle berry to sleep with you... it just ain't gonna happen. if the musicians you have are good, and you make music together that you enjoy, be happy with that. you can always hire a manager/engineer/gopher whatever if you feel bogged down in the "business" end of things.
-d. gauss
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#1645674 - 04/27/05 02:50 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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BluesWithoutBlame
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Loc: Oslo. Norway
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I think Lee Flier hit the nail on the head.
Generally though, if you want to get more help, the best way is to give a cut to an imaginary "overhead man". So if you are in a 4 piece band, it would be like a 5 piece band whenever you get paid.
So you have a total share...then you list all the jobs, and work out a fair split up of that fifth member.
Then you lay out the deal for the others. "if you take over some of it, you get that money...if I continue to do it all, I get a 2/5ths cut, the rest a 1/5th"
"if you take over a job it has to be done right. So if it is t-shirts, and we never have them, no dice."
It's harsh, but it definitely would be fair. On the other hand, the first thing I'd try is talking with them....though momentum, or lack of it, can be powerful forces. Generally, they see no reason to change anything...they have it nice now (kinda like teenagers at home) and all they gain by helping out more is "warm fuzzy feelings" and more work, no extra cash.
They probably are walking a little on egg shells, hoping you don't come out of it and realize...I bet you anything they have a GOOD idea how much extra hours and work you are putting in.
Again, anytime you do something like this, you weigh the results, the problems solutions might make..
Me, I'm in a similar boat, except the band has been togeth 15 years, I've been with them for about 6 months, and I have been trying to drive...since no one else is.
And I mean BASICS, like a better name, set lists, equipment decisions, new songs, trying to compile a list of contacts, band members list (they had an incomplete telephone list!), researching web-pages, etc, etc....
Then I realized, I don't want to be doing this alone for the next 10 years. So I called a meeting, listened very carefully to the answers when I asked "why are you in a group? What do you want to do in this group, where do you want the group to go? How important is it for you to play out?"
I got some enlightening answers. That's the thing about honesty, you have to then cut the pretenses, and decide. If I decide to do it all, get the jobs, etc...alone then I am going to burn out. I love the playing, I like SOME of the excitement of trying to get a job, but I want to play!
So either I need to adjust, or get a new group. That's it. Some of my folks were just as happy meeting one day a week and playing in a bomb shelter. They said "I wouldn't mind playing out once in a while...every couple of months, but I am not dependant on it"
Hey, they were honest. Others in the group are more ambitious.
This stuff ain't easy always :-)
Good luck to you!
_________________________
==================================================== Check out my original music at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but not in practice."
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#1645675 - 04/27/05 06:49 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Rim
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Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 2451
Loc: Alexandria,VA,US
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SpookyKid,
It seems to me you're enabling the other band members to slack off by picking up their slack. Or your expectations from them is unrealistic for them. Or maybe try setting deadlines for tasks that need to be done.
Our band is more the democratic type but we tend to realize what our strengths and weaknesses are. For example, I'm the one who's into recording so I know when it's time to make a new demo, it's mostly up to me. Our singer is really good with graphics so she does our web site and promo stuff. The bass player is good at creating set lists so he tends to do that. The drummer's wife is our sound person and though we do pay her it's more of a tip and since she's always there when we play, it's like an extra roadie we can count on.
I could go on, but the point is, you need to find who's good at what and have them be responsible for it. It may take some trial and error if it's not obvious. It sounds like you will need to give up control and have patience if the other members don't do it the way you would've done it.
You also need to talk to band members about this. Our singer used to annoy me because during set up, the drummer is of course setting up his kit, me and the bass player are setting up our own stuff including sound for the band but the female singer tended not to do anything during set up. I finally talked to her and the main reason is, she just didn't know what to do - not even how to set up a mic stand. I showed her some basic stuff and now it's cool.
- Rim
[edited]
Another interesting story:
When we first got our web site, I put up something functional but didn't look very good. The bass player then made changes to make it look better but broke some functionality. Meanwhile, we found out later, that the singer was wondering why we didn't ask her to do it since it's what she does for a living. The bass player and I, on the other hand, was wondering why she didn't say she was gonna do it so we figured she was too busy to do it. Finally, the singer said she should be the one who does our web site and we said YES! and told her we thought she was too busy to do it. Moral of the story is: keep communicating with each other.
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#1645676 - 04/28/05 03:09 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
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I just wanted to give everyone an update.
After much of your response and time to reflect on all of this. I have decided to call a band meeting tonight to present a business plan I created. It's really just an outline of goals and achiements, but it's to communicate what needs to be done. I used alot of your suggestions and even added alot on my own. I hope this will help everyone see the big picture and want to play more of a role. I am also hoping to get there side of things because I am sure there are issues that I didn't understand.
wish me luck. I will give you an update tomorrow.
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#1645677 - 04/29/05 09:58 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 150
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale
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Update:
After 3 - 4 hours, I am very happy to say the meeting went great. It definitely had its ups and downs.
We decided to grab a bite at a local restaurant and I presented my proposal. I would say for the first hour and half I was pretty much ready to pull my hair out. There was a lot of talking in circles with no real conclusions. I did my best to keep everyone on track. I also found out that we all going in different directions. My guitar player wanted to play nothing but covers, my singer wanted to finish the recordings and I want to play originals.
On a side note, I also saw that this band has no true leader, not a take charge person that will lay down the law. To me a good leader is someone you want to follow. It's like when they speak everyone just listens and it makes sense. In my day job my boss is a leader. An amazing leader, but me.....I speak and everyone talks over me....I am not a born leader ...I am a do-err, a team player, but I am too passive and indecisive and try to make everyone happy..Sorry to get off on a tangent...back to the meeting.
While we were at the restaurant the waitress noticed the title of my proposal. She said softly...I manage three bands and just got them in the SADFest. I almost didn't catch what she said. She asked what kind of music we played and my singer said "Rock" and left the conversation closed. When I realized what she said immediately jumped in conversation and started asking her all kinds of things and telling her about us. I said "WOW" we could really use a manager. I gave her my number, website and said please contact me so I could get her some material. So that was a strange coincidence...we will see what happens with that.
When we got back to my place we continued the meeting. We really started defining who we are, what we are doing and where we are going. The singer jumped in and really took charge, that's when it fell into place. We all decided to set 4 goals, and work towards those until we accomplish them. We also discussed what everyone wants to be in this band and what they will bring to the table. I think we have set a good plan and everyone agreed to it. I think we are all on the same page now and maybe can get some things done a little better.
A side from all of that, I just wanted take the time to thank everyone here for putting in there two cents.If it wasn't for this board, I wouldn't have taken the initiative to start this meeting. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
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#1645678 - 04/29/05 10:30 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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cherri
Gold Member
Registered: 09/10/03
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Loc: N. MI USA
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I'm glad to hear it was such a productive meeting!
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#1645679 - 04/29/05 11:31 AM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Lee Flier
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Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
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Awesome Spooky! Sounds like a great first step, and I'm really glad we could be of help.  Keep us posted.
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#1645681 - 04/29/05 01:03 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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Curious_G
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Registered: 11/09/01
Posts: 247
Loc: Gulph Mills,PA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by Geenard:
...Back in the day, we walked to gigs, in the snow, uphill, 27 miles...
_________________________
Got Twang? http://www.DeSotoRust.com "Interesting fact: the more gear a band brings in, the less people show up. This rule is almost universally true." JJ the Blue Moon
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#1645682 - 04/29/05 03:40 PM
Re: Getting Band Members to Contribute
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SpookyKid
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Originally posted by Curious_G: Originally posted by Geenard:
...Back in the day, we walked to gigs, in the snow, uphill, 27 miles...
Geenard....True Story...once the car broke down in Bedford on my way to a gig in Roanoke. I left the car, my rig, grabbed my bass and hitched to the club. Made it just in time had to go straight through the PA....Ahh, those were the days.
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