#1626300 - 10/19/00 04:54 PM
commercial music production
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boot9000@aol.com
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 4
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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Hello all,
I am looking for advice on starting to do music for ad agencies.
I have a studio (protools and some fairly good gear) and have produced and engineered many CDs. I have had publishing deals. I am confident I have the writing, composing, arranging, production and technical skills to do this.
But...
I do not know much about this part of the music bussiness.So when a acquaintance who works for an ad agency asked me if I would write and record a 30 second spot for one of his clients I had no idea what to charge.Anyway I made a deal I thought was fair.They took it. I did the spot, they loved it. Everybody was happy, and I was thinking "I gotta do more of this!"
So here are my questions:
1. can I make a living doing this?(assuming I do good work)
2. rates?
3. legal concerns?
4. unions?
5. dealing with ad agencies?
6. is the aesthetics of the studio a big deal.
should I spend the money on decorating and fancy chairs?
7. I have some contacts in some major agencies but I want to be sure I'm ready before I use those. you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
8. my resume or "reel"?
what to include in that?
9.are there more buzz words I should know?
10. are there things I need to know that I didn't even know I needed to know?
Any insight from you pros would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your help
boot
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#1626301 - 10/20/00 09:56 AM
Re: commercial music production
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Doctor Al
Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 192
Loc: ,,US
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I sent a copy of your post to a friend of mine who has been in this business for decades. Hopefully he will send a prompt reply back.
I have not really dabbled in this line, mostly because in my brief experience there, I was horrified by the clients. That was back in therr late 60s, but it kinda stck all this time.
My friend has made a handsome living in that line, however, they are in peril at the moment because of various unions on strike.
Hopefully, I'll hear from him soon and publish his replay to your post
Doctor Al
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#1626302 - 10/20/00 01:53 PM
Re: commercial music production
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boot9000@aol.com
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 4
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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Thanks Al,
I appreciate your help.
boot
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#1626303 - 10/21/00 12:37 PM
Re: commercial music production
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Doctor Al
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Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 192
Loc: ,,US
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Here is my friends reply. The volume of his response was extremely generous and I hope this answers all your questions and more.
Good luck!
1. can I make a living doing this?(assuming I do good work)
There are hundreds of channels and other electronic venues that are driven
by the money from broadcast advertising. You would think this would make prospects very good...however..there is a dim respect for music which is usually viewed as not much more than sound effects and there is not often enough budget to produce a track of which you can be proud. Much ad music is
right out of the library or in the case of "higher profile" national production, a well known song is licensed. (that's where the money is..i.e.write a famous beloved pop song with an upbeat theme which is generic or hip enough to apply to everything)
Good work is sometimes appreciated but not always the music selected for final use. Creative decisions regarding music are usually decided by a team of people involved in the production process..Copywriters..Producers..Commercial Directors... Editors...Art
Directors..even the mail boy. Then there are the Account Executives and even more feared...THE CLIENT. A frequent scenario is the production team's inability to "get over" a temp track which everyone has heard 50,000 times. The composer is asked to make a "sound alike" but legally different of course. Often the temp music ends up being licensed, or the composer gets "very" close to the temp music under the fear of not being granted the final
job and then has to signs an originality contract to free the ad agency of
any liability.
Jingles are currently out of style. Communication skills are
valuable........Forget your ego. Learn to enjoy people throwing you curves
and changing things on the spot.
Some Money can be made doing this kind of work. If you also provide sound
design services you would be better prepared for ad work.
The real money in music for advertising is derived by Creative fees, residual payments from Musician Union contracts and the use of your voice for vocals and voice-overs under AFTRA and SAG contracts. Unfortunately the
ad world has become indifferent to the Unions in recent years.
SAG and AFTRA has been on strike for over 6 months fighting to retain a fair
residual structure. They don't appear to have much clout. The Musicians Union is pretty weak in general.
The opportunities to write music for a national tv spot which would deliver
"big" bucks has become rare. There are fewer tv spots with musical needs being produced and there are more composers with talent and a pro-tools rig looking for work. Hey it's like show business.
If you are lucky enough to snag a "national" spot and it plays on the networks for a period of time, you can receive the royalties generated by broadcast through BMI or ASCAP.
You should know that the broadcast and advertising industries are in the
middle of technical and "future reality" turmoil. There is great fear about
TIVO and similar technology. (which allows editing-out of commercials and
promotes extremely selective viewing). There are many who feel advertising as we know it is going to fade.
2. rates?
Creative Fees? This is a big secret. Good luck. Very sought after composers
like Randy Newman could get $500,000 for a thematic idea and tag.However an
ordinary Journeyman could expect :
$7500 for a :15 TV....10,000 per :30 TV. $1500 per minute for underscore
for a short film or industrial video. Whatever you can extract is the rule
of thumb...like all other businesses.
3. legal concerns? Originality responsibilities...Musicologists are often
consultated. You must have an excellent written agreement and release for
your studio musicians to sign. This is automatic with Union jobs.
4. unions? Go Unions.... if you can ....It's a small world after all.
5. dealing with ad agencies? Time and repetition.... ass kissing.. Have an
excellent audio and Video demo. Have an agent get you jobs. Become famous.
6. is the aesthetics of the studio a big deal. Depends on the type of
client...Local producers often don't seem to care. Big time agency people
are used to the very best..both technically and comfort wise. Many ad music people are very well educated and alert to the detail. Ad people like to feel rich and important.
7. I have some contacts in some major agencies but I want to be sure I'm
ready before I use those.
You never get a second chance to make a first
impression. Don't be chicken.
8. my resume or "reel"? Save you best cues...get good music only mixes plus
a version with production elements.
9.are there more buzz words I should know? They are all over this page.
10. are there things I need to know that I didn't even know I needed to
know?
GET ALOT OF EXPERIENCE and don't let it ruin your music.
Best of Luck
A composer with adversions.
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#1626304 - 10/24/00 02:31 PM
Re: commercial music production
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boot9000@aol.com
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 4
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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Dr. Al and friend,
Thank you for your very complete reply.
I am overwhelmed by the generosity of the people on these boards.
One follow up question:
What exactly does "sound design services" mean.
Thanks
boot
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#1626305 - 12/14/00 01:39 PM
Re: commercial music production
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Simply put, sound design is providing noises that fit with what's going on the screen from a realistic or surrealistic point of view. Ex:
A guy is walking and it sounds like a guy walking. Just as in film, each sound event you hear is re-created either with sound FX sample libraries (that cost a few grand) or by recording the sounds yourself. The latter is the oldest way and is often reffered to as "Foley". Basically if you've already got Pro Tools and gear, you could do worst than getting "Sound Ideas 6000". It's so widely used, when I go to movies now I can recall a bunch of stock sounds I've heard! It's funny and kind of distracting.
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#1626306 - 01/31/01 11:47 PM
Re: commercial music production
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BK_dup2
Senior Member
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 113
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If anyone is still reading this thread.
Boot9000. Best of Luck. It has taken me 6 years just to start seeing any return. Everything Doctors Al's friend said is true.
If you have a chance to do the "Beat Track" or temp track do it on spec with a $$ amount set if they decide to pick it up. They will generally go with what they have heard a million times. Sound familiar (FM radio). Most ad people are lemmings. I you find the ones who have a true creative vision hang on to them as best as you can.
This is a good time to be an underground composer. Big Music houses are out of style at the moment, at least here in LA. So keep your overhead low and your production/creative level high and you should see some $$$ in your account.
Best Regards
Brian Kahanek
Sidewinder Music
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#1626307 - 01/31/01 11:50 PM
Re: commercial music production
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BK_dup2
Senior Member
Registered: 03/19/01
Posts: 113
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If anyone is still reading this thread.
Boot9000. Best of Luck. It has taken me 6 years just to start seeing any return. Everything Doctors Al's friend said is true.
If you have a chance to do the "Beat Track" or temp track do it on spec with a $$ amount set if they decide to pick it up. They will generally go with what they have heard a million times. Sound familiar (FM radio). Most ad people are lemmings. I you find the ones who have a true creative vision hang on to them as best as you can.
This is a good time to be an underground composer. Big Music houses are out of style at the moment, at least here in LA. So keep your overhead low and your production/creative level high and you should see some $$$ in your account.
Best Regards
Brian Kahanek
Sidewinder Music
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#1626308 - 02/02/01 09:26 PM
Re: commercial music production
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don@riversound.com
Senior Member
Registered: 12/28/00
Posts: 48
Loc: wethersfield,CT,UNITED STATES
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Al's friend covered every base but one!
Do a complete credit check on any ad agency that wants you to do their work!!! The ad industry average is 90 days...not good!
Make sure that agency has a positive history paying their bills...most ad agencies pay S..L..o..w...., and, some have a history of screwing vendors! Check their credit before you quote a price, and, base part of your price on their credit history. Add the interest charges late payments really cost at the bank! Build it into your fee, so, when you wait forever for your money, you get enough money to cover the time!
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#1626309 - 02/04/01 07:10 PM
Re: commercial music production
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John Worthington
Gold Member
Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 610
Loc: New Orleans,LA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by don@riversound.com:
Do a complete credit check on any ad agency that wants you to do their work!!! The ad industry average is 90 days...not good!
Amen. I used to be the VP of Engineering for a company that managed internet advertising for most of the large agencies. It got to be so bad at one point that we had to hire two people just to do collections. Even then some of these big name agancies would push it until we threatened to yank a campaign.
The important thing to remember is that agencies live on the surcharge they bill clients on top of actuals. If you charge $5k for a project, they bill $6k. So far so good. Now if they can collect the interest on holding your money for an extra 2-3 months, they're way ahead.
jw
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