#1339627 - 06/18/01 07:27 PM
what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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mte
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well sorry for bad subject (i don't know how to express that with words, is that feedback?)...
You know, when you have much distorsion and you play a note and when you "accidently" touch the string you can hear a sound that is an octave (or two?) higher than the original on the specific string/fret? Is that feedback?
How to learn to get it whenever you want and to do something useful with it? Like for example Guns'n'Roses use in some songs (end of Don't Cry's guitar solo for example) (well only they came to my mind when writing this BTW  )
Do you even understand what I'd like to get? If you don't, plz let me know, and yes, I know I explained the problem very badly  )
Thanks for any answers,
Matej
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#1339629 - 06/18/01 08:07 PM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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kudyba
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The simplest answer is what's called a "tap harmonic". This is accomplished by simply touching the string very lightly 12 frets up from the original note...
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#1339630 - 06/18/01 08:55 PM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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stanner
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depending on how much 'gain' you have workin,there are notes,harmonics,tonics,noises and alotta stuff all the way up (or down!) a fretted
(or unfretted!) string...w/ trial and error you will get much info.(i hope)
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#1339631 - 06/20/01 03:05 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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gtrmac
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You can get this sound if you let the "meat" of your picking hand's thumb hit the string just after the pick has plucked the note. You kinda "choke up" on the pick so that only the tip sticks out a little. You have to find the spots on the string where this will produce a harmonic of the original note. With a lot of distortion it's easier to have these harmonics come out.
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Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
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#1339632 - 06/20/01 04:56 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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fantasticsound
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Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com:
...You have to find the spots on the string where this will produce a harmonic of the original note. With a lot of distortion it's easier to have these harmonics come out.
The spots are easy enough to find by trial and error, but if you don't know, they correspond to equal divisions of the strings length. 1/2 the length (at the 12th fret), 1/3 the length (at the 7th & 19th fret), 1/4 the length (at the 5th fret and directly over my neck humbucker's pole pieces nearest the neck {or 24th fret if you have one}. Point; the 12th fret is the location of the last one, but it's far overshadowed by the previously mentioned 1/2 length), and so on.
These are the harmonic overtones of your guitar's timbre. As stated, they are compressed in comparison to the actual note you're playing when played through a hot gain stage. (Overdrive)
Experiment!
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Neil
Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.
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#1339633 - 06/20/01 05:17 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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gtrmac
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I think he was referring to harmonics related to fretted notes. If I'm not mistaken these are sometimes called artificial harmonics. Classical players make them by plucking the note with the thumb and quickly touching the string at the right place withe the index finger. I know the formulas are useful for discovering these sounds but you really have to practice it so you can play without thinking about it too much, just like everything else I guess. With the open strings I like the ones below the fifth fret too. There's a nice third, fifth and seventh down there.
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Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
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Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
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#1339634 - 06/20/01 09:01 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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mte
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Hey
Thank you very much guys... Now I started exploring all this stuff thanks to you... Well, if you have some tips about this more, please let me know..
Thanks again,
Matej
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#1339635 - 06/20/01 11:24 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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DC
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gtrmac@hotmail.com has got it. It's just hitting the string with your pick and thumb at the same time with loads of overdrive going on. I've never noticed it being dependant on where your left hand is i.e. note dependant. I can do it where ever I want.
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#1339636 - 06/20/01 03:14 PM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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fantasticsound
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Originally posted by gtrmac@hotmail.com:
I think he was referring to harmonics related to fretted notes. If I'm not mistaken these are sometimes called artificial harmonics. Classical players make them by plucking the note with the thumb and quickly touching the string at the right place withe the index finger. I know the formulas are useful for discovering these sounds but you really have to practice it so you can play without thinking about it too much, just like everything else I guess. With the open strings I like the ones below the fifth fret too. There's a nice third, fifth and seventh down there.
I was referring to both. Just giving him a map to begin finding these harmonics. They are the same harmonics whether you play them with your thumb on your pick hand or by false fretting (above the fret). They DO sound quite different though. One combines the various amounts of the fundamental (your thumb technique, which I love using!) the other concentrates on one harmonic.
To combine this with the next reply, the harmonics DO, in fact, change position when you fret a note. This is simple physics. When you fret, you shorten the string length that actively creates the note. Therefore, 1/2 the length of the string. (or 1/8th the length, etc.) ends up in a different position. Not far off for the thumb technique, but off none the less from the whole strings' harmonic locations. I feel this is getting VERY wordy. If anyone can clarify or condense my post, please do!
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Neil
Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.
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#1339637 - 06/20/01 07:36 PM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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stanner
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fwiw speakin o' harmonics, guitarrorist has a notebook on open string harmonics and has mapped the fretboard for notes on each string and fret(or between).
for instance:-1st/6th E @ 12th fret
12fret-E 18th-D
13th-nothing 19th-B
14th-F# 20th-Bb
15th-D 21st-G#
16th-G#
17th-E
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AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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#1339638 - 06/21/01 05:42 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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Mile
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Yes, there are three tipes of harmonics: natural harmonics (12th fret, 7th fret, etc.), pinch harmonics (produced with pick and thumb)or artificial harmonics (for example if you play C (1st fret, 2nd string) than you put your right hand index finger over 13th fret and play 2nd string with your thumb). Artificial harmonics are kind of natural harmonics (following same prinicipal) but are called atrificial...
Positione of right hand, while playing pinch harmonics, is not the same (depending on which note you play). Steve Vai is master of pinch harmonics. As for the artificial harmonics, listen to Nuages of Django Reinhardt. One whole part of that piece is played with artificial harmonics...
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If it sounds god, just play the darn thing
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#1339639 - 06/21/01 06:25 AM
Re: what makes guitar play an octave (or two?) higher?
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gtrmac
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This topic reminded me about Lenny Breau who was a master of artificial harmonics also. I posted some info about him in another topic.
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Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
My Music: http://www.javamusic.com/freedomland
_________________________
Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
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