#1339414 - 06/11/01 06:23 PM
getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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mauryrutch@yahoo.com
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 15
Loc: Tamaqua,PA,UNITED STATES
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HI everyone! I'm having tone trouble! I have a Mesa-Boogie Subway Rocket combo that I love - when i can open it up and get the power tubes goin', but those volume levels are unusable in my band. What can I do to get that power-tube sound at lower volumes? Are any of you playing any of those 1-5 watt boutique amps? how'bout power-soak type things? ANy help is greatly appreciated.
Maury
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#1339415 - 06/11/01 07:32 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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Tedster
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Registered: 09/21/00
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Hey Maury...are you the Maury from Old Dan's Recording Website? If so, welcome...and even if not, welcome, too...
This is an age old dilemma, getting balls-to-the-wall sound at lower volumes. Nothing you can do except try a bunch of things. And, as you probably know...what may seem to kick butt in a music store at volumes less than the kid next to you playing "Enter Sandman" for the 50th time may really leave you cold on the gig.
I would try a POD. I personally use an Ibanez tube screamer occasionally to give my solos a kick...and I kind of like it. But...somewhere there is "Tone Nirvana"...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1339416 - 06/12/01 01:47 AM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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gtrmac
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Registered: 12/06/00
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Loc: Naniwa-ku,,JAPAN
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Have a look at the Univalve here: http://www.thdelectronics.com I keep bringing this thing up because I want one!
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Mac Bowne
G-Clef Acoustics Ltd.
Osaka, Japan
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#1339417 - 06/12/01 02:33 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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not coaster MODERATOR
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The botique amps would be TopHat and E-mu. Top hat now has 2 power tube versions of their little tyke. They are a 4 and 5 watter. Go check the site to see what the tubes are. No verb or trem just good tone. Yes you can play these wide open and be heard. The key is to track down a dealer with these amps so you can audition them.
POD PRO is gaining acceptance as a direct medium.
You want to know a killer little solid state rig that has major tone at low vol? It's the Fender Bronco. Under $200.
As for me, I have an isolation box for my little combos that let me crank up volume in my house or on stage. The mic is in the box and you run a line into the board.
Good luck. Keep us posted if you are able to play a Tophat.
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#1339418 - 06/12/01 03:29 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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gonzo-x
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Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 27
Loc: salt lake city,UT,UNITED STATE...
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here's a killer little link......
http://www.smicz-amplification.com/tad.html
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#1339419 - 06/12/01 03:48 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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strat0124
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Registered: 04/03/01
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Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
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You know....it looks cool having those amps up on the stands behind you...but I've found if I sit the amp on the floor, and strategically place the amp behind a P.A. stack, I can crank it alot more to get that sought after power tube grind. Especially if the stage has carpet on it.....usually doesn't but I love it when it does. I use a stage tuner and a Boss SD-1.....and that's it. I'm gigging these days with the Blues Jr. and the Pro Jr. I'm a huge fan of small tube amps, it's really where it's at. If that doesn't work, build a "doghouse" to put your amp in, mic the thing inside. Or...you can go digital.....or solid state. Tech 21 stuff to my ears sounds the best of the lot. I've played a Tech 21 Trademark 60......I was impressed, but it ain't a scorchin little tube amp cranked.....those are unmistakeable. Good luck....you're searching for a solution that we all have struggled with for years.
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1339421 - 06/14/01 11:08 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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michael saulnier
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Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 4070
Loc: San Diego,CA,UNITED STATES
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Here's a website ALL ABOUT small poweramp overdriven tone...
Lots of great ideas and links...
http://www.amptone.com/
guitplayer
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#1339422 - 06/16/01 05:35 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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D_dup3
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Registered: 11/16/01
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Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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1)Install a master volume control.
2)Use a volume pedal.
3)Find a satisfactory mini-amp (Pignose, mini-Fender, mini-Marshall, etc.).
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#1339423 - 06/16/01 08:08 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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stanner
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Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 1157
Loc: san francisco,,UNITED STATES
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1)wrong
2)wrong
3)wrong!
all these answers only affect the preamp-the quest is about power tube sound.
well i have a and these units take a signal off the speaker jack so you do get the power amp section in the signal however these boxes ~do~ alter the signal somewhat! another box i use is a which is a tube rack unit that has all the settings/knobs of a tube power amp w/ a line signal as an out-this box is out-bloody-rageous for getting any kind of power tube signal saturation and would definitely work, if'n ya can find one...good luck!
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AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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#1339424 - 06/16/01 10:09 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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not coaster MODERATOR
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I owned the Ampulator AND regular ADA microcab. The sound was a little too dark for me. However I have heard the H&K Redbox 4th generation and they have gotten their stuff together.
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#1339425 - 06/17/01 04:47 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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strat0124
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Registered: 04/03/01
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<1)wrong
2)wrong
3)wrong!
all these answers only affect the preamp-the quest is about power tube sound.>
Dude you obviously didn't read my post...oh well...
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1339426 - 06/17/01 08:40 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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stanner
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Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 1157
Loc: san francisco,,UNITED STATES
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i'm sorry strat0124-i was well into a bottle of cabernet that nite.
but,what did i miss? please explain... and again, 1000 pardons...
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AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
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#1339427 - 06/18/01 12:11 AM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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mauryrutch@yahoo.com
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 15
Loc: Tamaqua,PA,UNITED STATES
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hey thanks for the input everyone (no pun intended) 
i ordered a fender pro jr from mf... i know 15 fender watts isn't logically much quieter than 20 boogie watts, but i played one in a nearby music store and i loved the tone of the pro jr when the volume gets past 5!!!!! very very usable for me & my band... i think! here's the next step: i have a tube screamer (newer plastic cheap version), and a boss eq pedal. i noticed that the nice cleans were around "4 or lower" on the pro jr... i won't receive the amp till wednesday at the earliest but i suspect i'll try cranking the amp to say, 6, for "crunch rhythm" and backing off my strat's volume for a clean sound. i suppose the tube screamer or the eq would be a great solo boost... any better ideas??? am i missing the obvious? i need clean/crunch (both same volume) and sustainy solo (louder) sounds and i hope this amp has'em!!! thanks for the continued support!
maury
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#1339428 - 06/18/01 05:17 AM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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Chip McDonald
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 4792
Loc: Augusta, Ga. USA
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Originally posted by mauryrutch@yahoo.com:
am i missing the obvious?
I just finished replying to another post of yours....
There *is* one thing not so obvious about that amp; if you run it wide open it does a "beyond infinite" compression effect. The the harder you hit it, the softer it will get....
There's a very cool point right before that where it will stay very clean, but easily saturate if you hit it hard. As long as you have control over your technique you can almost go from a "almost clean" sound to a "very overdriven" sound instantly just by touch. A very neat thing. The downside is it's not quite loud enough to use with even a moderately loud drummer I think. *Two* works well, I have two friends that each run a pair of them for their stage rig. Very expressive setup.
------------------
New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#1339429 - 06/18/01 01:50 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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not coaster MODERATOR
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Originally posted by mauryrutch@yahoo.com:
hey thanks for the input everyone (no pun intended)
i ordered a fender pro jr from mf... i know 15 fender watts isn't logically much quieter than 20 boogie watts, but i played one in a nearby music store and i loved the tone of the pro jr when the volume gets past 5!!!!! very very usable for me & my band... i think! here's the next step: i have a tube screamer (newer plastic cheap version), and a boss eq pedal. i noticed that the nice cleans were around "4 or lower" on the pro jr... i won't receive the amp till wednesday at the earliest but i suspect i'll try cranking the amp to say, 6, for "crunch rhythm" and backing off my strat's volume for a clean sound. i suppose the tube screamer or the eq would be a great solo boost... any better ideas??? am i missing the obvious? i need clean/crunch (both same volume) and sustainy solo (louder) sounds and i hope this amp has'em!!! thanks for the continued support!
maury
I've owned one of these and sold it but I think I'll pick up another or the Blues Jr to have as a quick and easy drag around not-too-loud amp.
On that Pro Jr. I set Volume and tone right in the middle and let the TS do the dirty work.
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#1339430 - 06/18/01 10:30 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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lynx
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 73
Loc: Hollywood,CA,UNITED STATES
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How about this? Get an amp that will do what you want. They exist. After years of using an original Marshall 50 watt plexi head (talk about great tube tone!- but unaccessible at low volumes-no masters in those days) I finally switched to a JCM 800 50 watt Lead combo w/2x12" Celestions and, most importantly-master volume.It's a little tricky, but when you get the hang of it you can make it roar at any volume. This particular model also has a wider tonal variation than the average Marshall. I've used it in clubs and for recording for about ten years now and I don't need any other amp ( I also have an original blackface Fender Princeton that stays under it's dust cover- the Marshall is better.) There have been many types of Marshall master volume modifications over the years-aftermarket and factory-and not all worked that great. This, however, if you can find one, was one of the ones that did.
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#1339431 - 06/18/01 10:35 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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mauryrutch@yahoo.com
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 15
Loc: Tamaqua,PA,UNITED STATES
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thanks, but i don't like the "marshall" tone. i admit i have never played an old plexi, but any of the combos i have ever heard sounded stale & thin. not bad amps, just not for me.
maury
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#1339432 - 06/19/01 02:37 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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strat0124
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Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
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My experience with these little amps is they can get smoking loud. I don't think you can realistically equate wattage with volume, given my experience. The Pro Jr cuts, and gets a nice grind with a guitar that has either active pickups or hotter, beefier pickups. I have played with guys who laughed at my little Pro Jr when I brought it in, until they heard this little demon open up. For small clubs it's easy to get too loud even with a Pro Jr. I played an outdoor gig, and felt I might need the Super, but brought the Jr. as a backup. I ended up using the Pro Jr instead....it really is a cool little amp. This is coming from a guy who "used" to think if it ain't 100 watts it ain't shit. I've been using little all tube combo's now going on ten years, I doubt if I ever go back to the behemoths of yesteryear. I'd love to have another JTM45 or AC30.....but that's about it.
My advice to guys wanting to control volume using a Pro Jr or Blues Jr is to sit it on the floor rather than on a stand...that is if you're mic'ing it....you can crank it way louder and achieve that cool power tube grind....if you're not micing it....yeah, you are limited to the dynamics of the room and your bandmates. Heavy handed drummers will cause every instrument to increase in volume....happens everytime. The Moaning Lisas are fortunate, in that we have a very tasteful drummer who can control dynamics properly in our little combo. Good luck......
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1339433 - 06/19/01 03:32 PM
Re: getting great guitar tone .... quietly ????
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mauryrutch@yahoo.com
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Registered: 09/19/00
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thanks strat. yeah, we are playing some outdoor shows in the summer, but lots of our gigs are small bars. it's just that we all sing in this band (4-piece) and usually have trouble hearing the vox in the monitors. those 3 part harmonies sound great ... at practice
thank you
maury
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