#1338098 - 05/15/01 07:09 AM
do ya need them tubes?
|
d gauss
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/15/01
Posts: 3231
Loc: Somewhere in the Swamps of Jer...
|
Offline
|
|
don't want to start to the old tubes vs. solid state thing,,,but are us tube folks crazy? bb king uses a solid state gibson lab5. he sounds good. those ccr records are classics and john f. used a kustom 200 watt solid state head with tremolo! i think the buzzcocks hits (britian) were done with hh solid state amps..... um, need i mention albert king and his acoustic 370 bass amp?.....then there's those polytones and roland jazz chorus amps. ignoring the new modeling stuff (line6, etc) for now, can you folks deal with a solid state amp?
-d. gauss
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338099 - 05/15/01 11:20 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Scott from MA
Gold Member
Registered: 10/04/00
Posts: 540
Loc: Middleboro,MA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I get one hell of a sound out of the LabSeries L5's. However, I do have a tube pre-amp that I kick on when I need that little extra boost.
_________________________
Scott
(just another cantankerous bastard)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338100 - 05/15/01 11:27 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Lee Flier
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
NO I have never played a solid state amp that really bowled me over. And I don't really see what the big deal is about tube amps. People talk about how inconvenient they are but I've never had problems with any of mine - have had to change the tubes out maybe 2 or 3 times in 20+ years... and yeah they're a little heavier to carry around maybe than a solid state... but sheesh, small price to pay for the shit-eatin' grin that spreads across my face whenever I turn one on!
--Lee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338101 - 05/15/01 12:45 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
|
|
Offline
|
|
With one exception...my Rick 360-12 through a Roland Jazz Chorus. Although I was kinda interested in that Marshall Valvestate thing on the homepage.
Other than that...gotta have tubes.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338102 - 05/15/01 02:22 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
strat0124
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Definitely tubes. I like the spanky clean you can get out the high wattage solid state stuff by Roland and Fender, but it lacks the oomph that tubes provide. I am a huge fan of small tube amps, and the sound of a cranked EL84 equip'd small combo can't be matched with solid state or emulation. I have a POD....it's cool, but it ain't the same...no way. Also the sound of a 6L6 combo, cranked up enough to get sweet, another non comparison. Like the difference between O'Douls and Bass Ale.
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338103 - 05/15/01 02:50 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
nhcomp45@aol.com
Gold Member
Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 741
Loc: Nanticoke, Pa.
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hey Strat, I have an EL-84 combo. Its a Sonic-15. You set the reverb at 2 and everything else on 10. This amp only has one sound but on lead with an MXR Plus it perfect for some songs.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338104 - 05/15/01 03:44 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
KJ
Senior Member
Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 185
Loc: Methuen,MA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I have a Tech 21 Trademark 60 which I must say really impresses me. It is the most responsive SS amp I have ever played through. It is very tactile and the distortion channel really responds to guitar volume and touch, just like a tube amp. I was blown away by it in the store and immediately bought it, I was not amp shopping, but I could not resist. It quickliy relegated my Hot Rod Deluxe to back-up status. I get more useable tones with the TM60 and more options like the footswitchable reverb (which the Hot Rod does not have), the footswitchable effects loop and the line out capability for feeding a PA or direct recording. Tubeheads, check out a TM60, you'll be amazed!
_________________________
KJ
-------------------
"50 million Elvis Presley fans can't be all wrong" - John Prine
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338105 - 05/15/01 05:14 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
michael saulnier
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 12/06/00
Posts: 4070
Loc: San Diego,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Originally posted by d gauss:
...are us tube folks crazy?
-d. gauss
Uuuummmm... Crazy?
Yes, of course. That's completely correct. Oh, yes, absolutely so... no question about it... is there any doubt?
Let me ask my friend Napoleon... Yes, he agrees! ...And he WAILS!
guitplayer
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338106 - 05/15/01 05:52 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
KHAN
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/08/00
Posts: 4028
|
|
Offline
|
|
>>>Topic: do ya need them tubes?
-------------------------------------
YOUBETCHERASSIDO!!!!!! 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338107 - 05/15/01 06:03 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Chad
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 2936
Loc: Pittston, Maine, USA
|
Online
|
|
Yup.
_________________________
"I just play any old go-to-hell note that swings." - Pops Foster
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1338108 - 05/15/01 07:37 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Lee Flier
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
So Khan, Chad, et al, I gather that none of you guys are ready to have your tubes tied yet? 
--Lee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338109 - 05/15/01 07:54 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Emile
Gold Member
Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 589
Loc: Montreal,,CANADA
|
|
Offline
|
|
For me it comes down to this: if your playing involves nuances in pick attack and phrasing the sonic differences will be enhanced by a GOOD tube amp. If you're bashing oversaturated power-chords 'till the cows come home and go thru a truckload of pedals then there's no real benefit unless you happened to be getting a particular tone you can't get otherwise but you'd probably prefer a solidstate for such sounds anyway. It's just that (with tubes) the variations in volume also affect the tone color as opposed to just how loud things are wich is pretty much IMHO what a solid-state amp does.
Emile
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338110 - 05/15/01 08:24 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
stanner
Platinum Member
Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 1157
Loc: san francisco,,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
i am crazy about tubes
i use feedback as an integral part of my sound and i used to be strictly solid state.
now that i use tubes people dont hate me as much
thank you tubes
_________________________
AMPSSOUNDBETTERLOUDER
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338111 - 05/16/01 01:53 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
art
Senior Member
Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 77
Loc: santa clara,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Power tube saturation - there is no substitute!!!
I love the sag of a tube rectifier, too.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338112 - 05/16/01 05:59 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
stratman_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 0
Loc: attleboro,MA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
They make guitar amps without tubes????
Who'd a thunk it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338113 - 05/16/01 11:43 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
strat0124
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I have checked out the Trademark 60. In fact out of all the solid state and emulators, in my opinion it's the best. I've come close to buying one a couple of times but haven't. I'll probably buy one used if it pops up somewhere. I just love glowing filaments encased in glass.....just my preference.
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338114 - 05/16/01 12:09 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
DC
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 2706
Loc: here to eternity...
|
|
Offline
|
|
Round about 1982 I got my first Boogie and that was and still is 'IT!'
The only non tube device I used for years was a Rockman X-100 (first modeler?) for practice and some recording. I'm pretty happy with my Boss modeling pedalboard for some things but it just doesn't have the balls of my Boogies or even my Cream Machine. I'll always have tubes around for guitar.
As far as the original question goes, no, I can't get a sound I like out of a Kustom or Roland Jazz Chorus amp, or a distortion box for that matter.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338115 - 05/16/01 01:15 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
|
|
Offline
|
|
DC sez...
>>>As far as the original question goes, no, I can't get a sound I like out of a Kustom or Roland Jazz Chorus amp, or a distortion box for that matter.
Well, yeah...but...like I said...the sound that I *like* out of a Roland Jazz Chorus is with my Rick 12 string. Gotta be clean for that...pretty much. Once in awhile a re-eal subtle edge (like the intro of "The Waiting")...gotta be tubes for that. I believe Petty musta used a Vox on that. But...I don't have a Roland JC...so everything goes through the Marshall. OH...new thread time...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338116 - 05/16/01 05:35 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Lee Flier
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah, that was definitely an AC30 on "The Waiting". For my Rick 12-string, I use my Fender Pro and it gets a REAL nice clean sound. I think I already mentioned that I hate Jazz Choruses so I won't mention it again... oh wait, I just did....
--Lee
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338117 - 05/16/01 05:48 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
strat0124
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I personally like the way 12 string sounds through a slightly cranked tube amp. Kinda early REM and Tom Petty sounding.
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338118 - 05/16/01 10:40 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
neonjohn
Senior Member
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 70
Loc: New Haven, CT USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
I have a POD that I just love for recording. It is just amazingly versatile, and I almost never record thru an amp anymore (I can hear the moans, but it really works)! I usually record clean, and choose my POD "amp" after the fact, during mixdown. However, I still use my Mesa to play out. I just love the way it creams up as I drive it harder and sweetens when I back off. The POD live is just not the same.
neonjohn (the composer/engineer formerly known as mixville)
_________________________
neon
Mixville Productions, LLC
Creative Music and Sound Design
"I guess all songs is folk songs. Never heard no horse sing 'em."
Big Bill Broonzy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338119 - 05/16/01 10:49 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
neonjohn
Senior Member
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 70
Loc: New Haven, CT USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Ah, a 12 string Rick through a Vox. . . Being an old fart, I have to mention that the Petty stuff, as wonderful as it is, is a thinly veiled tribute to the ultimate 12 string Rick band of all times: The Byrds. Eight Miles High, Bells of Rhymney, Turn Turn Turn, Chimes of Freedom. . . McGuinn's Rick 12 and nasaly whine with David Crosby's rich harmonies?: what a sound!
Sorry- you brought me back!
_________________________
neon
Mixville Productions, LLC
Creative Music and Sound Design
"I guess all songs is folk songs. Never heard no horse sing 'em."
Big Bill Broonzy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338120 - 05/17/01 12:55 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
jef5f
Senior Member
Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 204
Loc: Linn Creek, MO,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I got sick of the issue of which is better a long time ago. And why do so many of the Solid State amp manufactuers trying to emulate the tube sound, when SS has a character and quality all it's own. The issue of unreliability with tube amps really ended in the 70s when Boogie started making the best amps in the world, especially with reliability. I play through tube amps, Dean Markley, Oliver, Ampeg, Boogie and love them all. I have played a lot more SS and there are some great ones out there. I knew a Jazz player who had a SS Standell from the 60s, it was great (especially with his old 50s Gibson Jazz box). I had a Crate, with an Oak cabinet with dove-tailed joints, 3 channels, and it was good. I had a Marshall Super Lead MosFet 100 with a 4x10 cab, incredible amp. I currently play through a late 60s Vox Pacemaker SS. The best sounding SS I have ever played through. It has a character I can't find in any other amp.
I have a friend who is a SS amp snob. If it has tubes, he puts them down. I don't like that about him. I also don't care for the tube snobs either. Each amp whether SS or tube has its value, and it is up to the user as to whether go one way or the other, or if they even know there is a difference.
Now, I think I'll read all the posts and see what youse guys think. I only read the original post before I posted.
This message has been edited by jef5f on 05-17-2001 at 10:03 AM
_________________________
Psalm 33:3
The best instrument you have, is your heart.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338121 - 05/17/01 01:06 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
strat0124
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 5056
Loc: ,VA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I know what you mean......there is a trend to completely diss some folks based on the given choice of gear they possess at the moment. I heard a band at the Jewish Mother here in Va Beach....the guitarist was using a Fender Stage 160......and he killed with it. He and I know each other, and after his first set, he actually apologized for his gear. Of course I told him that he was smokin, and that I liked his tone....cause he in fact did sound awesome. My own preferences are all tube amps. But I will go on record saying "use what you got" and make it work......who cares, as long as it sounds good to you.....
Having said that, I bet if the same guitarist had an AC30 or a JTM45, even a Hotrod series.....to my ears he would have been even better. But he was still damn good, both technique and tone.
_________________________
Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338122 - 05/18/01 07:10 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
lrbreez
Gold Member
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 675
Loc: Walnut, CA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
I definitely love tubes, but I also like the Line6 stuff (though I don't consider them Solid State even though they are). A great SS amp are the old Vox amps made in the US by Thomas Organ. They weren't reliable but they sounded real good.
Buddy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338123 - 05/18/01 07:15 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
lrbreez
Gold Member
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 675
Loc: Walnut, CA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
BTW the wah-wah like sound that the Beatles used on "Birthday" on the White Album was a SS Vox amp. They ran the guitar through the MRB (Mid Range Boost) channel and switched through the 3 MRB settings.
Buddy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338124 - 05/18/01 11:34 AM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
jef5f
Senior Member
Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 204
Loc: Linn Creek, MO,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I actually use a combination of SS and tube. The Vox Pacemaker(currently being repaired, broken fuse holder), Ampeg Reverberocket, and the Oliver bass head into a Boogie cab. Solid and full sound, whether using pedals or processer.
_________________________
Psalm 33:3
The best instrument you have, is your heart.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338125 - 05/18/01 02:27 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Dylan
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
|
|
Offline
|
|
I've had good results with both tube and solid state amps. I've owned the Trademark 60 and now the Trademark 10. Personally, I think the TM 10 sounds better overall, but of course it is not as loud or full sounding as the TM 60 due to it's smaller speaker and lower wattage. I sold the TM 60 since it was too loud to play in the apartment that I was living in at the time, but now that I'm gigging again I need a more powerful amp than the TM 10. I'd like to find something in the 30+ Watt range with a great clean channel. I already have a distortion pedal, so I don't care about having a lead channel. I've looked at the Fender Blues Jr, but I'd like something with a bit more "umph" to it. The Hot Rod Deluxe is great, but it's freakin' loud as hell and a bit heavier than I'd like. Finding an amp that was a nice combo of these two amps would be great. I played on a Behringer Blue Devil recently and was pleasantly surprised. It's clean channel is not shabby, and the effects processor is also nice. Any suggestions? Again, I really don't care if it's solid state or tube, and all that I'm looking for is a good + somewhat loud clean channel that doesn't brake up when pushed.
Thanks,
Dylan
-d. gauss[/B][/QUOTE]
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338126 - 05/18/01 04:16 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Chip McDonald
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 4792
Loc: Augusta, Ga. USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Tubes.
The low end isn't right on modeling amps. Not that the high end is either, but that would be easier to deal with if the low end reacted the same, which it doesn't....
The only downside is weight, and inconsistency. Since I've switched from Marshalls to Boogie inconsistency is less an issue, but it's still there - things get weird sensitivity wise when the available power drops. At least with the Boogie stuff it usually still sounds good, though....
some old Randall ss amps are "ok", but still sketchy, and don't have the variable character of a tube amp.
If one is playing covers or rather pedestrian music it's probably not as much an issue.
------------------
New and Improved Music Soon: [url=http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/url]
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1338127 - 05/18/01 05:14 PM
Re: do ya need them tubes?
|
Dylan
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 3671
|
|
Offline
|
|
Originally posted by Chip McDonald:
Tubes.
The low end isn't right on modeling amps. Not that the high end is either, but that would be easier to deal with if the low end reacted the same, which it doesn't....
Chip,
There's a big difference with your run of the mill solid state amp and a modeling amp. Personally, I prefer a good solid state amp like the Trademark 10 or 60 or even a Fender Performer/RocPro 1000 to a Line 6 or comparable model amp. Solid state amps seem to "breath" more in my experience.
-Dylan
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: myles_rose, A String, Bluesape
|
|
|
