#1334985 - 03/21/01 04:17 AM
Guitar Amp
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udontsay
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I'm thinking about getting a Guitar Amp, but have no idea where to start.
There are so many choices out there.
Please give me some input.
Thank you,
George
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#1334986 - 03/21/01 04:35 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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KHAN
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George, in order to give you any kind of advice, we need more facts.
Do you want a practice amp, or one you can use in a group situation?
What type of music do you play?
What kind of guitar do you have?
Why do men have nipples?
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#1334987 - 03/21/01 05:51 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Lisa
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And how much do you want to spend?
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#1334988 - 03/21/01 05:59 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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stanner
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i think you should quit while you are ahead
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#1334989 - 03/21/01 10:51 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Tedster
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Nipples...hahahaha....
Geez...nothing like pondering life's mysteries. Men have nipples for the same reason they have earlobes. Something else to pierce if you're in an alternative or punk band.
Don't quit, though, George...to quote Edgar Winter..."Keep playin' that rock and roll".
The choices are "practice amp or performance amp". I'd go for the performance amp, as it can grow with you, and practice amps are relatively cheap, so you can always pick one up later.
For a performance amp, at least like 30 watts...preferably 50. Combo or head and cabinet? I'd go an all tube (valve if you're in the UK) combo. 50 watts or better. For my bucks, you can't beat a Marshall. I'd say look at Fender, Marshall, maybe Carvin (great stuff but catalog order only) or Peavey. I've played through some nice little Peaveys. Lee swears by Ampegs. There are a ton of other brands with varying degrees of expense, but, for tried and true, y'know.
You'll never know until you plug it in and try it out, though.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1334990 - 03/21/01 04:50 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Vegar
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I myself have a Roland JazzChorus 120 and I'm REALLY happy with it 
Vegar
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#1334991 - 03/21/01 08:22 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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framus
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I had a really nice 30-watt Boogie DC3 combo amp for quite awhile - it did the job nicely - singing tone - I miss it.
I'm back to the 120 Watt Dean Markley monster amp, now.
------------------
http://www.mp3.com/SteveThompson
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#1334992 - 03/21/01 09:08 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Mile
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Marshall just can't be beaten... And consider Fender amps too...
For extra cash go for Mesa Boogie... They cost alot but they do have the sound...
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If it sounds god, just play the darn thing
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#1334993 - 03/21/01 09:38 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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stanner
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i knew this would happen: "i've got this amp,i've got that amp,-no, you got to try and use this amp" blah blah blah all the way home...
the nonchalance of the question -"i thinkin of doin this,..." just begs the question why? what for? what *is* your thinking? you gotta go out and try some stuff and have a personal knowledge of it and then proceed...all these opinions on what works best for 'them' has little or no use for each individual. thanx-rant over
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#1334994 - 03/21/01 10:32 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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jef5f
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Registered: 12/14/00
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Loc: Linn Creek, MO,UNITED STATES
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Start with a Line 6 modeling amp like the Spider til you find the type of sound you like because they will mimic the best amps. Then when you've found your voice, you will have had time to save for a Mesa Boogie or Vox or Matchless, or Marshall bluesbreaker or whatever. the modeling amps are becoming inexpensive and are very versitile in finding your sound.
_________________________
Psalm 33:3
The best instrument you have, is your heart.
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#1334995 - 03/22/01 03:45 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Chip McDonald
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Loc: Augusta, Ga. USA
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Originally posted by udontsay:
I'm thinking about getting a Guitar Amp, but have no idea where to start.
A) Ask yourself "who do I think has a great sound?"
B) Find out what they use.
C) Buy *exactly* that.
D) Meaning, *exactly* what they have.
If you can't do the above, get:
hyper cheap: Vox Pathfinder, Fender Bullet reverb
cheap: Peavey Classic 30
If you're going to spend more than that - you should take my advice that I gave at the top and not waste your money, but if you do make sure it has tubes.
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#1334996 - 03/22/01 03:56 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Lee Flier
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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:
A) Ask yourself "who do I think has a great sound?"
B) Find out what they use.
C) Buy *exactly* that.
D) Meaning, *exactly* what they have.
Heheh... funny story told to me by a friend who used to be a guitar tech for Bob Dylan, and also for Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. By coincidence, he was working for both of them when they started touring together, which they did for a couple of years.
Apparently one day after rehearsal, Dylan says to my friend, "Boy, that Mike Campbell sure does get a great sound. I wanna sound like THAT!"
So my friend dutifully goes and gets Dylan a Vox AC-30 and a Telecaster like the one played by Mike.
After the next rehearsal, Dylan says, "Well, this is all right, but it still don't sound like Mike Campbell!"
Gee Bob, ya think the fact that YOU'RE NOT MIKE had anything to do with it? 
--Lee
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#1334997 - 03/22/01 04:43 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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udontsay
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Thank you everyone!
The truth is, a Pro Audio company wants me to help design a guitar amp. Yes, you read it right -- design an amp for guitar from scratch.
But I need your input!
So far you all have been great help and I keep track your effort.
If the company offers some goodies, I will then pass it along to those who contribute to my project.
Practice amp? Performance amp?
What's the difference?
What do you look for when you bought your amp?
What do you wish your current amp has that are missing now?
What make a player choose one amp over another?
What other questions have I left out?
Please continue our conversation by posting replies,
Or email me directly at georgelien@email.com
Thank you all very, very much!
George
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#1334998 - 03/22/01 02:37 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Tedster
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Yeah, Lee, but at least he has the tools to sound like Mike, so should he develop his style, well, let's put it this way...Dylan had removed all the variables save one...and that one is up to him. But in truth, the "same" guitar (say two more or less identical Teles) and the "same" amp (Ditto two more or less identical Twins) can sound quite different, even when played by the same person.
Well, George, guinea pigs we are, huh?
Well, you're talking about some sort of "boutique" amp, are you? Lately I've seen these designs, something that looks like a 1930s radio, etc. Forget that. Need something that you don't have to worry about it getting thrown around in the back of a truck. It's gotta use tubes. Combo? For me, yes. Something that sells for around a grand. 2x12s.
Now, here's the rub. Every combo I play is open back. Is it possible to come up with a sealed back combo? I mean venting the top and/or upper sides, or isolating the speakers from the amp for ventilation. I'd love the meaty sound of a sealed cab, with the portability of a combo. I'm not a bells and whistles guy. The best plain sound from an amp...reverb...cool. Don't know if others would think this was a viable idea, but how about a foot pedal controlled master volume? Is this possible? So you can kick your solo up without fudging with extra pedals, still have a bit of dirt at low volume, and make it sing for solos?
You all probably are convinced I'm ready for the rubber room now. Well, to be honest, I'm already there. They only let me type 'cause they won't let me have anything sharp...WHAT? Time for my meds again? Cooooollll....
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1334999 - 03/22/01 04:01 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Chip McDonald
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Originally posted by udontsay:
The truth is, a Pro Audio company wants me to help design a guitar amp. Yes, you read it right -- design an amp for guitar from scratch.
But I need your input!
That's too easy!
IDEAS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD:
First thingt, the most important thing in a combo:
MAKE IT THREE CHANNELS (ala Boogie Nomad series)
Have 3 channels: one optimized for clean sounds, one for overdriven/rhythm sounds, with a switch to re-optimize for modern metal Rectifier type sounds, and one channel for high gain lead.
The Boogie "solo" master volume rules as well.
Make sure it's all analog.
Make it midi switchable by relays.
Make the tone controls optimized for above mentioned sounds.
Make sure the volume pot is of the highest quality so it won't bad (which happens with all old amps...)
Make sure it's a high voltage design.
Parallel effects loop, with the ability to run a full %100 mix if need be.
No, better yet - make that a switchable function, so that not only can you switch the loop in but so that you can also have a switched preset alternate mix balance.
Make a combo amp with an adjustable back baffle so you can vary the enclosure from partial-open back to closed.
Make the cabinet a hair deeper than norm so you can make the top/side dimensions smaller: that way it will fit more easily in the front seat of a car.
Use a real metal grill to protect the speaker.
Go ahead an put handles on the sides of the cabinet so it will be easier to carry: make them flush so they won't snag on anything.
Don't make the box proportions from top to bottom any sort of weird shape.
Figure out an output stage design that provides the headroom a large transformer design provides - without the weight of the large transformer.
I've got to go to work so I'll stop here....
No wait, just thought of something else important:
Put the chassis of the amp on the BOTTOM of the cabinet. It'll be easier to maneuver. You can seperate the controls back on the top. Make sure the control panel is frenched into the box, and that the backside of the control panel has a raised edge so you can balance a flat object on top of the whole deal.
Practice amp? Performance amp?
There isn't a need for another practice amp.
What's the difference?
Flexibility in requirements for a live amp, tone for a recording amp - practice amps are cheap and plentiful already, simplicity rules.
What do you look for when you bought your amp?
Quality of sound. Ability to make a Fender-oriented clean sound; Marshall rhythm sound; Boogie lead sound. Cost. Weight. A number of other factors...
What do you wish your current amp has that are missing now?
Seperate tone controls for the 3rd channel (Boogie Formula pre>Boogie 50/50). I wish my '68 plexi had a built in Juice Extractor.....
I wish I had an amp that sounds like the Boogie stuff BUT DIDN'T WEIGH AS MUCH AS AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER.
What make a player choose one amp over another?
Immediate perception of gain feel versus harmonic timbre/content, weighed by current perception of *recorded* amplifier sounds. Midrange timbre, high frequency overtone character, and low end response.
What other questions have I left out?
You're kidding...? About.... Maybe 1,000 maybe, but I could be off by an order of magnitude?
How does one get such a job? Is your boss named "Greg" by any chance? Does he need a "gestalt director"? I want to design an amp!
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
This message has been edited by Chip McDonald on 03-22-2001 at 01:05 PM
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#1335000 - 03/22/01 04:19 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Mile
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Chip, I couldn't have said it better myself!!!
Midi controllable?!? Most definitely!!!
Make it 2x12 and stereo FX loop!!! Most FX have stereo outputs and to use it you need stereo returns. And external cabinet out is a must... You can drag your combo to small gigs and to studio but in real situation when you're on open you need volume and 4x12 is hard to beat!!!
And three channels??? Oh, yes!!! Put me for that one...
I curently have Marshall Valvestate 100W head... TSL 2000 is way expensive and valvestate does have tubes, however first thing I saw is three channel beauty with Marshall logo on it...
No fx incorporated...That's why we own multi fx units or stomp boxes!!!
Just plane ol' reverb and that's it...
Wrap it up and I'll check it out...
This message has been edited by Mile on 03-22-2001 at 01:23 PM
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If it sounds god, just play the darn thing
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#1335001 - 03/22/01 04:43 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Tedster
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>>Make a combo amp with an adjustable back baffle so you can vary the enclosure from partial-open back to closed.
Yeah, that'll work...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1335002 - 03/22/01 07:14 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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michael saulnier
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I agree with most of the comments above... but if I am looking to fill a niche that is not well served.. a great sounding low power amp.
The sweetest and most desirable overdriven tones come from power amp distortion not pre amp distortion, IMHO. The problem with 30 to 100 watt amps is they need to be turned up so loud to get this sound that they're only used at this volume in medium or large size venues, and in most small studio, practice, or home use... you're not getting the good sound.
One option is powersoaks and so on... these are useful but not as good as the poweramp being pushed without this capability.
So... give me a version of the above ideas combined with a "very" low poweramp wattage, (maybe 1 - 5 watts max)... Maybe with an upgradable, switchable, or replaceable power section that could give me a 40 watt or above when needed.
guitplayer
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#1335004 - 03/22/01 11:59 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Chip McDonald
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Originally posted by guitplayer:
I agree with most of the comments above... but if I am looking to fill a niche that is not well served.. a great sounding low power amp.
As in "ultra-low power"?
I'd actually like someone to build a device that is both tube output stage *and* power soak combined as an effects device. Right now I use a Rocktron Juice Extractor on various poor, unsuspecting amps I own.
What would be cool would be a 1-watt design that used enough of a power soak to bring the volume down to a "manageable" level, since many of the tiny amp designs are still too loud in reality. That would be a cool solution: a short wire minimum-circuit path alternative to running some sort of pre into an old vintage amp with a cable, out of that with more cable into a power soak, more cable out of that into a power amp, THEN more cable to the speaker finally...
The sweetest and most desirable overdriven tones come from power amp distortion not pre amp distortion,
I think "sweet" is relative. I try to balance everything in my setup; the power amp aspect alters the ballistics of the ADSR of the note for what I like - wacked out just sounds garbled and too much like a Fuzz Face intermodulation distortion thing to me... I want a box that exaggaerates the timbral compression artifacts.
A box that drastically altered the power rail voltage based on input voltage/frequency characteristics would be very cool, so you could get that bigger headroom sound with a light touch but then get the sag effect if you hit it harder....
One option is powersoaks and so on... these are useful but not as good as the poweramp being pushed without this capability.
Some are pretty good, the THD and Holdsworth's Harness II.. The Juice Extractor isn't bad.
I prefer it to the maxed-out Woodstock garbled mess sound. Speaker distortion sounds crappy to me unless it's with a really thin sound to begin with.
poweramp wattage, (maybe 1 - 5 watts max)... Maybe with an upgradable, switchable, or replaceable power section that could give me a 40 watt or
1 watt is louder than one might think. A tenth of a watt would probably be cool, but I don't think a tube design can go that low maxed out...
The coolest thing is how a Blues Junior does negative compression when cranked up; that design/effect with a much lower volume would be a very cool thing. That effect *as* an effect would be cool in a stand alone box...
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#1335005 - 03/24/01 04:48 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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aeon
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I already posted about killer-tone, low-power amps in this forum...and the amp you want is already in existence!
http://www.londonppower.com
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#1335006 - 03/27/01 12:30 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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udontsay
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If possible could someone help explain the terms everyone uses in this post? You see these terms are new to me, so it would be great if someone could do this for me.
Thank you,
George
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#1335007 - 03/27/01 07:07 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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lrbreez
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Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 675
Loc: Walnut, CA, USA
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The best power attenuator (power soak) I've used is the Marshall Powerbrake.
The best approach to picking a guitar amp is to use one like your favorite guitar player. I like Duane Allman. I bought a Marshall 50 watt head of the same year (later a second one). This with a Les Paul got me in the ball park. The only thing I didn't do was to load my Marshall cabinet with JBLs and convert the back to a open back.
Another approach is to get a Line6 Flextone. This way you can play through several models. When you find a model you really like then you can get that amp. The Line6 will continue to be usefull as a recording amp, small club amd and practicing. Down the road most people end up with a few different brands of amps.
Buddy
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#1335008 - 03/27/01 12:07 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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jef5f
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Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 204
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If I got to design an amp to my liking, all the bells and whistles, the sounds, and all.
Three channels - 1) To sound like my souped up Ampeg Reverberocket with a Jbl K-120 speaker 2) A Mesa Boogie MK with the EV black shadow speaker, and 3) A Vox Pacemaker (the soild state one) with the gold bulldog 10" speaker. The Ampeg and Boogie channels would be tube and the Vox would be SS.
It would have a treble boost like the Vox.
It would have built in spring reverb.
It would have 3 inputs.
A buffered effects loop.
Two 12" speakers and 2 10" speakers. Each channel controling a different speaker, but with the switching capability to have all of them running when desired.
A footpedal with channel switching and channel mixing, a volume control and a reverb expression pedal for mising in as much reverb as desire on the fly.
LEDs on the face and the footpedal to signal operation.
I know this is probably a wierd combanation but these are the amps I play and the way I'd like them to be. I know that the only cost-effective way to get this is the modelling amps, but I haven't been able to get the all the sounds from them I want.
This type of amp would be difficult to manufacter and sell, but the footpedal with a volume control and reverb expression pedal is what I would want in an multi-channel amp if I couldn't get the rest.
_________________________
Psalm 33:3
The best instrument you have, is your heart.
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#1335009 - 03/28/01 04:50 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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udontsay
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Thank you, thank you a whole bunch!
You the best for your effort in sharing your thoughts and your likes.
Please keep this going, so I can come up with something most people want.
Regards.
George
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#1335010 - 04/03/01 07:14 AM
Re: Guitar Amp
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udontsay
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"I'm bac. . .k!"
Okay, now let's go for round TWO.
More feedback and more suggestions in coming up with the guitar amp you want.
Thank you,
George
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#1335011 - 05/14/01 06:50 PM
Re: Guitar Amp
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Dylan
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That's funny, Lee. Even funnier is that I saw Tom Petty play the Gorge last weekend up in Washington, and Mike Campbell was playing through 2 Line 6 Amps. That's right, he's gone digital. I never thought that I'd see Mike use any digital amps, but sure enough he was. Still, he sounded like Mike Campbell, which is great as always. Cracks me up...
-Dylan
Originally posted by Lee Flier:
Apparently one day after rehearsal, Dylan says to my friend, "Boy, that Mike Campbell sure does get a great sound. I wanna sound like THAT!"
So my friend dutifully goes and gets Dylan a Vox AC-30 and a Telecaster like the one played by Mike.
After the next rehearsal, Dylan says, "Well, this is all right, but it still don't sound like Mike Campbell!"
Gee Bob, ya think the fact that YOU'RE NOT MIKE had anything to do with it?
--Lee
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