#1332167 - 11/23/00 12:21 AM
Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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All the talk about favorite guitarists...makes me think there is hope for what I would term "dinosaurs" (I'm a big dinosaur fan, I kinda are one)...Dinosaurs being say, the old blues guys, people who aren't shredders or fusion maestros...but who can turn a tasty phrase.
What do you all see as the future of the instrument? What are our kids and grandkids going to be playing, and what sort do you think their heroes and heroines will be?
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332168 - 11/23/00 12:43 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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JP_dup5
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I remember when we were gigging in the early 80s everyone was talking about how the guitar was dead, but we kept gigging, and kept drawing crowds. EVH brought a new era to the guitar, and rekindled interest for a whole generation of kids. I personally was too old and set in my ways to learn his style of tapping, but I wacthed a lot of younger players learn it. you've havent lived until you hear a tapping solo to "lady in Red". my 11 year old son is dead into the guitar. with mentors like SRV and KWS, I can now rest easy that what goes around, comes around.
JP
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#1332169 - 11/23/00 02:35 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Freak
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I wouldn't call the greats dinosaurs. Yeah, OK, I'm 20 and into metal and shred, but I get my inspiration from the blues, jazz, and modern folk. Stevie Ray Vaughan and Buddy Guy are gods. When BB King or John Lee Hooker are out there doing whole albums of duets with just about everybody, you can see where the respect is. The new album with Eric Clapton and BB King is a terrific example. I say, remember Django Reinhardt, and let's get on with it. And today? Take a close look at what Ani DiFranco is doing on the guitar...awesome.
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#1332170 - 11/23/00 12:33 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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Well, I was being kinda tongue-in-cheek when I called them "dinosaurs". JP hit upon the main point of my post when he said "Yes, I was too old to learn the new style". Well, although I realize that perhaps one is never really too old to apply oneself, when you've hit upon a comfortable, "signature" style, do you want to change it? Here we differentiate between learning new licks, which we should always do, and learning a new style, which may not be for everyone. I mean, what if B.B. put down Lucille, picked up a Dinky and started shredding and dive bombing?  Kinda like when John Fogerty did his "Blue Moon Swamp" VH1 concert a couple of years ago. He was playing "Old Man Down the Road", and started tapping in the middle of the solo. My ears cried "foul!"...I mean, it just didn't (to me, anyway) go with the whole dirty swamp thang, y'know??
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#1332171 - 11/23/00 12:59 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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nhcomp45@aol.com
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What is shredding?
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#1332173 - 11/23/00 01:33 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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JP_dup5
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freak makes a good point. as I sit with my 11 year old and get him started to learning riffs from kid rock, limpbizkit, etc., I see the same riffs that I learned as a teenager from my heros. an interviewer once asked bb king how much he practiced every day. bb smiled and said," I don't practice, but I do play my guitar every day."
ted understands this thing with getting older and not changing your style to suit the "soup de jour". when I was playing actively, my band would have two new songs every time we played a new gig. I didn't learn the chops from the record. I would get the flavor of the riff, and inject my interpretation, or style.
I did watch the john fogerty special, but thank god I missed the "old man tapping". I am sure I woulda had the same reaction you did ted.
JP
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#1332174 - 11/24/00 02:43 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Lee Flier
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Interesting perspective Tedster. I've never really seen tastier players as being "dinosaurs"; in fact the shredders and fusion players nowadays probably get labeled that more so, since much of their playing sounds very 70's.
I think there have nearly always been two schools of playing: play simple and play to the song, or be a player's player who likes to show off their chops. In every decade there have been players that have done each. I mean the 50's rock and blues players were tasty but there were some jazzers who went over the top. The 60's saw lots of tasteful players but then you had Cream and Hendrix and the like. The 70's probably had the most excess on the charts with all the prog rock and fusion, but at the same time you still had Page and Townshend and Joe Perry (plus some players not charting like Richard Thompson who would not be appreciated until later). By the 80's things were pretty evenly split and would remain so, with Van Halen and a myriad of their clones topping the charts right alongside U2, REM and other more song-oriented bands/players. By the early 90's it seemed like shredders were all but completely out of fashion - many of the alternative and grunge bands didn't even do guitar solos or deliberately played the simplest noise they could muster. Now, there is a resurgence of shredders, and who knows what will come next?
If anything, there is more room for everything nowadays than there has ever been. So it's harder than ever to predict the future of guitar - my guess is there will be no "future" but rather a whole plethora of "futures" that will go in completely different directions. If we're lucky, terms like "dinosaur" and "hipster" will pass from our vocabulary and whatever somebody's taste is will just be what it is.
--Lee
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#1332175 - 11/24/00 04:12 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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Like I said, I used the term "dinosaurs" in a tongue in cheek fashion...
I was on another board and a shred/fusion dude was bemoaning the current lack of chops evident in the current song trend...Third Eye Goo Goo-box 20 etc. and some of the more energetic acts.
To which I replied, "Don't lose sight of what rock and roll was in the beginning, a bunch of teenagers banging out Louie Louie in a garage. Then came Hendrix and Clapton and raised the bar. Then McLaughlin and DiMeola raised the bar higher. Then came punk and lowered it back to "Louie Louie". Then came the 80s shred heads...Rhoads scholars, etc., raising the bar again. Then along came grunge and knocked it back to Louie Louie. Where next is anyone's guess"...
The guy replied that he'd never thought of it that way...
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332176 - 11/24/00 04:24 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Lee Flier
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Yes exactly, Tedster!
I would also tell that guy to quit paying attention to what's on the charts and seek out more of the underground bands if he wants to hear some chops... shredding is alive and well in the underground metal scene. I am not a shredder, but I still think what's on the charts mostly sucks weenie. Whatever your taste, you have to go pretty far afield of the charts these days to find much that's good.
--Lee
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#1332177 - 11/24/00 05:50 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Fletcher
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Originally posted by nhcomp45@aol.com:
What is shredding?
Originally posted by Tedster: Well, first you need a cheese grater
No, seriously, the heavy metal extreme speed playing exhibited by people like Yngwie Malmsteen, Dimebag Darrell, etc. etc...
Tedster-you do of course realize that the English translation of Yngwie Malmsteen is: 'opening act'?
-----
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio http://mercenary.com
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#1332178 - 11/24/00 07:57 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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Well, exactly Mr. Fletcher...
The way I see it is...who's a better guitar player, Yngwie or, uh, John Mellencamp?
Who's sold more records?
But, there ya go, getting at Lee's prior post, most of what's on the charts DOES in fact do a MEAN Hoover impersonation. But, there are a few shining moments. And with internet and cable radio, we're finding it easier to locate cool artists that don't make us barf. I personally don't have time to keep up with it all...
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332179 - 01/23/01 10:43 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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I hope I is a dinosaur also. Honestly, every time they claim guitar is dead (thanks to keyboards,processors, and snyths, etc) the guitar comes back stronger then ever. Creativity and desire to be new and different always breeds something unique.
The music we have heard at different times is always a throwback to an earlier time and an older style. But they take the basics of the "dinosaur age" and throw in creativity and desire, and become unique, new and modern.
I predict (as if I am a prophet of any kind) that the new age of guitar music to come will be to take the strongest characteristics of each age of guitar and merge it with creativity and desire (as is always done), and oh wow! it ought to be something else. I am always surprised, even if I don't personally care for the newest, but refreshed because guitar music is not stagnant.
I believe the instrument will remain essentially the same, but will be made mostly of non-wood materials (the Parker Fly being a precursor of things to come) and the shapes will be like always, the same, similar and sometimes way out there (thank you Dimebag). The electronics will be where the major advance comes. Somehow, someway, they will be able to do things with a guitar that only a POD Pro or a Didgitech 2101 can do now. Amplifiers will become digital, but with tubes (for nostalgia's sake), and the guitarist will become an orchestra in and of themselves. Speaker design will improve and the speaker will become more efficient. Less power needed to amplify louder.
And the blues, true rock and jazz, even pure country will once again rule with new ways of doing what we already have, and are currently doing.
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#1332180 - 01/24/01 12:35 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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Man , you guys are deep. I've got a dinosaur sized headache, as I too are one(dinosaur, that is). Bad grammer aside, From a guitar standpoint, I haven't heard much in the last 15 years from the mass market(choose your poison : radio , VH1, MTV)that I thought had much passion for the instrument. This has been a source of aggravation(I'm a guitarist DAMMIT!!!). Then I heard a phrase that I will be taking credit for in the future."THE MASSES ARE THE ASSES"!!! This made me realise that most (not all I'm sure) of the really inspired playing has always taken place on the fringes. And after thinking it through, that is exactly where I want to be. Am I a Dinosaur, YOU BET YOUR ASS!!! I love RUSH,HENDRIX,YES,SRV,CRIMSON,RANDY RHODES,ZAPPA,SANTANA,ETC...The really great dinosaurs will never become extinct.Thanks for your time, I'm feeling much better now.
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#1332182 - 01/24/01 10:01 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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Of course we are thankful when some dinosaurs become extinct.
****Example: MOLLY HATCHET****
First album : FLIRTIN' WITH DISASTER
Second album : BEATIN' THE ODDS 
Third album : PLAYIN' THE CLUBS ??? 
BUH--BUH--BUH--YEAH!!! 
Tedster, I love the "Third Eye Goo Goo-Box 20 " reference. Kind of reminds me of one of my favorite cover band phrases. "Stairway to Freebird by Seeger".
This message has been edited by Khan Noonian Singh on 01-24-2001 at 07:14 PM
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#1332183 - 01/25/01 03:35 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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Actually, Khan,
I've been thinking about coming up with a "song" that's kind of a "medley from hell" of all the stupid songs bar bands hate, but invariably get requested at the rate of 15 per set. That'd be a great name for the song...
Or maybe "Three Steps to an Old Time Stairway to Cocaine Heaven"
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332184 - 01/25/01 06:10 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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stanner
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dinosaur(jr) is THE great guitar band of all time ! i'm pretty sure...
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#1332185 - 01/25/01 03:13 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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In my SWEET HOME ALABAMA, I don't get no SATISFACTION from that OLD TIME ROCK-N-ROLL.However G-L-O-R-I-A looks WONDERFUL TONIGHT dancing with her SHARP DRESSED MAN. If you will GIMME THREE STEPS I will TURN THE PAGE now that TUESDAY'S GONE, and I will be FREE as a BIRD. Am I being PARANOID ? Well, seeing as COCAINE is illegal, I guess I will have to make due with ONE BOURBON,ONE SHOT AND ONE BEER.
CHEERS!
I wonder what we could do for the second set?
This message has been edited by Khan Noonian Singh on 01-25-2001 at 01:03 PM
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#1332186 - 01/25/01 07:56 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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>>In my SWEET HOME ALABAMA, I don't get no SATISFACTION from that OLD TIME ROCK-N-ROLL.However G-L-O-R-I-A looks WONDERFUL TONIGHT dancing with her SHARP DRESSED MAN. If you will GIMME THREE STEPS I will TURN THE PAGE now that TUESDAY'S GONE, and I will be FREE as a BIRD. Am I being PARANOID ? Well, seeing as COCAINE is illegal, I guess I will have to make due with ONE BOURBON,ONE SHOT AND ONE BEER.
The perfect "First Set From Hell". Sometimes I think that if a band did nothing other than those godforsaken tunes, they'd be successful with all of the morons that frequent most clubs.
I'd add a second set to include Proud Mary and House of the Rising Sun, Wipeout (for any wedding bands out there)...The Dance (for you rednecks out there)...Achy Breaky etc...
What is it about these stupidass songs that tends to attract idiots like moths to a lightbulb? How can I write one of these stupid songs so I'll get jukebox royalty checks in the bazillions for the rest of my life? Have a lobotomy maybe? HAHAHAHAHA...not to mention piss off thousands of hard working musicians for ever and ever...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332187 - 01/25/01 08:25 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Lee Flier
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LOL Tedster! Well hey, how about it! Let's all write the Musicplayer.com Guitar Forum Generic Bar Band Song! Soon to be played by bar bands and on jukeboxes everywhere! We'll make a fortune!
Now the song has to have all the following ingredients IMO:
1) An arpeggiated finger picking part a la Stairway, or House of the Rising Sun, which is just difficult enough for beginners to think it's really badass but simple enough that a reasonably serious high school player could master and thereby impress all his classmates.
2) A hook in the chorus featuring a really simple distorted guitar riff or chord progression, e.g. Smoke on the Water, Smells Like Teen Spirit, or Cocaine. Proud Mary might be a bit too difficult - all those rapidly changing bar chords, yipes!
3) A chorus with no more than 5 words, preferably 3, and even more preferably having a few of the words be just vocal noises such as "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!" or "Doo Wah Diddy".
4) The rest of the lyrics should include references to getting drunk, doing drugs, sexual double entendres, getting dumped by your lover and/or getting revenge on said ex lover, getting screwed over by the boss man, and/or just getting down and dirty on the dance floor. As an alternate, references to arcane and mysterious religious rituals are acceptable. Nobody has to know what the words mean as long as they SOUND cool.
5) An extremely simple chord progression in the break that invites infinite jamming and soloing by guitarists, keyboardists, drunk people who invite themselves up on the bandstand, etc. This should just be a constant progression, God forbid it requires keeping track of what bar you're on or anything.
Anything I've left out? OK, let's get to work! Key of A?
--Lee
This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 01-25-2001 at 05:30 PM
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#1332188 - 01/25/01 09:42 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Tedster
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>>4) The rest of the lyrics should include references to getting drunk, doing drugs, sexual double entendres, getting dumped by your lover and/or getting revenge on said ex lover, getting screwed over by the boss man, and/or just getting down and dirty on the dance floor. As an alternate, references to arcane and mysterious religious rituals are acceptable. Nobody has to know what the words mean as long as they SOUND cool.
ROFLMAO..Lee, let's do it, let's write the tune...we'll be millionaires! The part above reminds me of Steve Goodman/David Allen Coe's "You Never Even Called Me By My Name"...kind of a rock and roll, er, no, not necessarily rock and roll, just BAD BAR BAND version of that, encompassing the worst elements of everything you describe. The good part of it would be that we'd be having a laugh at the more inane elements of bar patronage, and they'd be too dumb to realize that the joke was on them!!!!!
Don't forget to use an element of "Enter Sandman" by Metallica...how 'bout the Enter Sandman riff with Satisfaction over top of it, like the way April Wine superimposed Satisfaction and Day Tripper, with a sax playing "Turn the Page" on top of that? Keep the beat a "Gimme Three Steps" kick drum intro, and we're on our way...
Geez, where do we start?
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#1332189 - 01/25/01 10:06 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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Let me be the first to say congrats on hitting "THE BIG SIX-OH-OH" (posts,not candles). We need to get a title for ths top-40 tour de-farse. I would however like to offer up a name for the group. "PUTRID RAGE".
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#1332190 - 01/25/01 10:13 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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Q: from Tedster,
>>What is it about these stupidass songs that tends to attract idiots like moths to a lightbulb?
A: stupidass people is as stupidass people does...
GUMP
This message has been edited by Khan Noonian Singh on 01-25-2001 at 07:16 PM
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#1332192 - 01/25/01 11:06 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Anonymous
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>>...just think of the crap I've put everyone through reading my banterings...
I can't argue with pure logic.
This message has been edited by Khan Noonian Singh on 01-25-2001 at 08:07 PM
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#1332193 - 01/25/01 11:10 PM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Chip McDonald
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Originally posted by Tedster:
What do you all see as the future of the instrument? What are our kids and grandkids going to be playing, and what sort do you think their heroes and heroines will be?
The future is hopefully headed to a nexus of common realization that there isn't such a thing as "cool" *anything* anymore.
"Cool" used to infer awareness of something new that others are not aware of yet. What it means *now* is merely the efficient execution of an established norm, which can be just about anything now.
The bad part is that people still think in terms of a hierarchy that doesn't exist anymore.
There aren't "dinosaurs" in music anymore, not when music is going in 40 opposing directions at the same time. What a person thinks is "cool" in the dance music world has nothing to do with what's "cool" in the metal world. What's "cool" in country circles has nothing to do with either.
YET, I'm sure everyone in all cliques considers everyone else somehow inferior because they don't fit their *local* definition of "cool".
Dinosaurs - Seattle came around based on "dinosaur" music. The dance music scene is spazzing out on retro disco bs - which is a "dinosaur" concept relatively speaking, and in the techno/electronica side of things people are excited about sounds made by devices found in music 30 years ago.
Which is a fractionalized society. Either the group mind becomes educated to the concept - and comes together to start rethinking things on a "flat" musical territorial perspective,or we get a William Gibson-esque dystopia.
Where Gibson is wrong is in making geographical distinctions between different sociological fractions, when thanks to the Net your next door neighbor can be a raver from Taiwan who is totally obsessed with collecting clothespins, while you can be into Bulgarian folk music and have all the in depth conversation one requires about microphone technology - thanks to the Net.
20 or so years of this is going to make some interesting things happen sociologically I think, particularly in terms of language and communication (or lack there of).
Musically - there are no dinosaurs, only people who are ignorantly arrogant about their perspective historically about music.
Hmm. 1,000 years from now - if this continues, you may have people breeding based along lines of esoteric interests that are self-cannibalizing (like pop music currently is). Another 1,000 years, maybe we'll see the advent of genetic offshoots of humans based around very specific basic abilities: athletes, warriors, artists, intellectuals. Already the slacker/lazy humans are being pushed towards a certain genetic archetype, and pretty much everyone is surprised to find and ugly person descended from an extremely rich/aristocratic bloodline these days as well...
The only "dinosaurs" musically speaking that will exist 10 years from now will be those who are stuck in one genre of music trying to figure out why their rehashed ideas from a previous iteration of their style doesn't cut it anymore. Speaking as a musician who makes everything from new-agey sounding acoustic music, to blues, fusion and "other", I'm hoping the Hybrids win out in the future as the populace tires and gets jaded to endless rehashing.
Or I'll just have to off myself, one or the other.
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
This message has been edited by Chip McDonald on 01-25-2001 at 08:11 PM
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#1332194 - 01/26/01 03:13 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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michael saulnier
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Dinosaurs will rule the earth without care or fear until the day when the uncaring and unthinking universe shall smite them down in a meteoric blast of fire and death...
... at least that's what probably happened last time... and doesn't history repeat itself?
And, as long as us dino's rule... the guitar will live.
Meaning as long as "chicks" think boys playing guitar are "cool", horny boys will be picking up guitars and bashing them to impress them.
Then it's just "natural selection".
From the group of horny guitar bashing boys, some talent will emerge, from that group, some A/R type guys will anoint a select few, from that group, the next "heroes" will be created... hotel rooms will be trashed... fortunes made and lost, "Behind the Music" episodes filmed, and on and on... until the meteoric apocalypse or whatever.
guitplayer
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#1332195 - 01/26/01 07:04 AM
Re: Dinosaurs...???
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Chip McDonald
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Originally posted by guitplayer:
And, as long as us dino's rule... the guitar will live.
As a matter of fact a recently discovered dinosaur was named after Mark Knopfler. I kid you not.
Reuters:
"The British musician's distinctive guitar style, gravelly voice and hits such as "Sultans of Swing" and "Romeo and Juliet" were such an inspiration and source of good luck to paleontologists they named a 70-million-year-old dinosaur after him.
Masiakasaurus knopfleri is a 1.8 meter (6 ft) long meat-eating creature, about the size of a German shepherd dog, with unusual protruding teeth. "
What this means, I don't know. Probably something to do with lunch meat.
will be trashed... fortunes made and lost, "Behind the Music" episodes filmed, and on and on...
.. as proof of the truth of this witness the
demise of a former student of mine:
http://www.mindspring.com/~chipm/dickroach.htm
(no, that's not me with the He-man underwear on his head... the cat was not harmed either, at least not physically)
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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